Frum enviromentalist?

Chickensoupprof

Fri, Oct 23 2020, 8:54 am

I'm a super environmentalist and yeah I think it is a good thing. I remember my hike from Tzfat to Meron through the woods and everywhere plastic bottles and candy wraps and other garbage in this beautiful landscape in EY. I was like... How can a frum yid just throw his garbage here? I kinda want to come back to clean that place up, I never throw anything away. I knew my husband was the one for me because on our first date in Amsterdam he picked up thrash and threw in the trashcan he said ''I want to let people say that a frum yid cares about the world, I need to show it''

acemom

Fri, Oct 23 2020, 9:07 am

It's not all or nothing.

We make/host at least 2 grand meals a week rather than maybe once a month, so the use of disposable products becomes a convenience.

Larger families with overwhelmed parents have so much to juggle and worry about, so convenience trump's environmentalism.

Otoh, most people I know are careful with "Bal tashchis" and would reuse and recycle what they can.

We're also very careful about cleaning up after ourselves and not just pollute our surroundings with garbage.

It isn't some "cause" or "agenda" that keeps us busy or occupies our brain all the time.

Just my 2 cents.

GLUE

Fri, Oct 23 2020, 9:32 am

People on a lower income are are more likely to have a lower "foot print". Because the most things that end up in the dump is packaging, over 20%(the # might be more now) of stuff we throw out is used to hold other stuff.

If you are worried about your "foot print" try to live for a few month with out throwing anything out. There are people who wrote books on not throwing anything out for x amount of time. They quickly learned the only why to make this work is to stop buying stuff.

youngishbear

Fri, Oct 23 2020, 9:51 am

#BestBubby wrote:

The Torah commands "Ba'al Tashchis" so I try not to waste anything - including water and electricity.

BUT the Climate Change Hoax is just an excuse for Government to control literally EVERYTHING -
it would be the abolition of private property.

I believe it's far more likely that corporations with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo are spreading disinformation in order to suppress support for legislation that would harm their business interests.

I simply don't see a comparable cynical motivation on the other side of the debate. To me this is another example of an issue that should not have turned political.

ETA: Maybe we should start a spinoff in the polutics forum.

amother

Red

Fri, Oct 23 2020, 10:19 am

Funny you should mention this. I recently saw an essay ion the website of the Association of Orthodox Jewish Scientists in which the writer is concerned about environmentalism--not because it is bad in and of itself, but because he fears the skewed values of the extremists in the movement. PETA is a stellar example, placing the interests of animals above those of humans, and gleefully harming humans while expressing abiding concern for animals.

I see his point, but the writer shouldn't be tarring all environmentalists with the same brush. Every movement has its extremists, every movement has its members who turn it into an avodah zarah, but they don't invalidate the movement as a whole. Environmentalism is in our Torah, by another name. It's called 'bal tashchit.' Needless destruction and waste are anathema to a Torah-abiding Jew, or should be. ( OTOH, we don't worship the idea of saving everything. Sometimes we are commanded to destroy things that are a spiritual threat even though they may be useful or valuable from a purely physical standpoint. For example, if you accidentally cooked meat and milk together, you would have to throw it out. You can't feed it to your dog or give it to the nonJewish poor or compost it.)

I think the excessive reliance on disposables is partly out of laziness and entitlement--after all, people had large families long before disposable products were available and they managed--and partly out of just plain not caring. Unfortunately, many of us are brought up to look out for Number One. Make your life as easy as possible, never mind that you're helping to destroy the planet. There's a kind of childish faith that I don't have to take steps because Hashem will make everything ok, Mashiach is coming tomorrow anyway, so my use of _____ won't matter. And anyway, it's just me, I'm not polluting the planet, it's everyone else.

A wonderful organization called Canfei Nesharim, http://canfeinesharim.org/, founded by a frum woman, is raising environmental awareness in the frum world. Its motto is "Sustainable Living Inspired by Torah"

Anon because I was just talking about this to people this week.

youngishbear

Fri, Oct 23 2020, 10:30 am

amother [ Red ] wrote:

I have seen a lot of the bolded, too. There is also lack of knowledge.

I don't judge though, because I am also very good at coming up with rationalizations. It's really hard to change habits.

Thanks so much for the link. The website looks really interesting.

amother

Pewter

Fri, Oct 23 2020, 10:59 am

Have some of you been reading threads here lately??? Plenty of us are up to our eyeballs in responsibilities. Struggling with lack of sleep, time, self care, Work, and you are implying that I’m being lazy (And entitled!) by not washing dishes 3 times a day for my family of 6? we as a group tend to eat out infrequently, so that’s also a whole lot of pots and cooking utensils. Honestly- how much extra waste is being produced by busy households use of paper goods, and how much harm is that causing the environment?
Or do you think I shouldn’t have had so many kids In the first place if I can’t find the time to wash all the dishes every day?

amother

Bisque

Fri, Oct 23 2020, 11:02 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Years ago, I read an article by Rabbi Avi Shafran in Jewish Women's Outlook called Never Too Many and I believe that he made the point there that while we have larger families, we do tend to have a smaller footprint, as far as square feet per person, using hand me downs, buying second hand furniture, etc. We may not be perfect but we certainly compensate in some areas.

Except for disposable plastics....

Im married to a reduce reuse recycle man 25 years. I did get concession to use disposable napkins, but not silverware dishes or glasses. If Im having an outdoor BBQ of 10+ ppl total, or indoors more than 20 ppl, he conceded I can do plasticware.
He helps wash. I conceded to compost, recycle and buy used.

BTW, true environmentalists would argue having a large family is in itself wasteful.

I've had family members tell me the Torah says the world is for us to use, disposables are created for us to fill landfills.

zaq

Fri, Oct 23 2020, 11:13 am

Funny that some people should think conservation is a rich-people thing. Rich people may have the means to buy expensive "sustainably grown" organic produce, "cruelty-free" cosmetics and those sorts of things, but conservationism is hardly their exclusive property. Some people are conservationists from birth simply because they are or were poor, and their concern is making their resources stretch as far as possible, while others aren't poor but hate waste. I wonder if some people's reluctance to repair/reuse things stems from a sense that reusing or repairing implies poverty or miserliness.

I love the story about the man whose coat wears out, so he makes of it a vest, till the vest wears out and he makes of it a scarf, then a necktie, and finally a button.

pause

Fri, Oct 23 2020, 11:26 am

I do what I can.
I reuse plastic water bottles, plastic shopping bags, those clear food bags we use to buy produce, and aluminum pans - some of these multiple times.
Theoretically I love the idea of cloth diapering, but practically it's not for my lifestyle. Instead I buy partially biobased diapers.
I use Corelle dishes during the week even for kids (except when I'm pregnant and can't wash dishes or erev Shabbos when the sink is already clean and empty).
We recycle our recyclable garbage.

OTOH, there are many things I do that aren't so environmental-friendly and I won't do viduy now.

amother

Fuchsia

Fri, Oct 23 2020, 11:34 am

It's really about how much you can juggle. My life is full with caring for my family, my demanding job, all of the parts of frum life that take time and energy etc. I don't have space in my head to worry about the environment, my sanity needs to come first. That means I use a ton of disposables because I can't juggle washing all those dishes, I simply can't. The same way we choose which chessed we can do whether it's cooking for a new mother, carpooling, PTA, or taking a friend's children in the afternoon after birth, we can't do it all, I see this the same way, I need to choose my priorities and the environment isn't one of them.

youngishbear

Fri, Oct 23 2020, 11:35 am

amother [ Bisque ] wrote:

I suspect it's Malthusian views like these that make frum people reluctant to identify with the movement in any way. The gloom and doom of climate change activism also makes people uncomfortable because it indicates lack of bitachon.

youngishbear

Fri, Oct 23 2020, 11:54 am

southernbubby wrote:

I started a thread once when some rabbonim in Israel tried to encourage people to wash dishes rather than use disposable dishes. Most of the women said that water in Israel is more expensive than the cheap plastic dishes and that they couldn't afford the high water bills. Basically if it's better for the environment to wash dishes, the government should subsidize water.

I've read arguments comparing the energy and water involved to wash the reusable (dishes, bags, diapers, etc) versus the environmental impact of the disposables. There is no perfect option.