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Got summons while closed - may as well open!
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Oct 28 2020, 3:22 pm
My coworker came to work all excited today. As of today his boys elementary school is open for full in person learning. They were completely closed through yesterday. They got a summons yesterday because they had a bus parked outside the school - despite the fact that there was not a single kid in the school. They decided if they are going to be punished while they are closed, they as may as well be open!! I am usually not in favor of breaking laws and chilul hashem etc but in this ridiculous situation the school is 100 percent correct. DeBlasio and the building inspectors: If you are going to give out fines for being opened even while places are closed they are all just going to open cuz they are being punished either way.
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cnc




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Oct 28 2020, 3:26 pm
Yups , I know multiple schools that got summons while being closed and compliant.
For that price, every single school should be open - up and running.
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amother




Wheat
 

Post  Wed, Oct 28 2020, 3:41 pm
This is just like the story about Papus ben Yehuda and Rav Akiva

(In short Papus ben Yehuda told Rav Akiva it's not safe to teach Torah when the Romans forbid it and ended up in jail with him anyway)

see this link for the story in length

https://www.aish.com/sp/pg/48907957.html

This is the history of Klal Yisroel. It doesn't change...
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amother




Azure
 

Post  Wed, Oct 28 2020, 4:48 pm
delete

Last edited by amother on Thu, Nov 05 2020, 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cnc




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Oct 28 2020, 4:59 pm
imasoftov wrote:
These summonses, do they just collect the fine, or are they like a traffic summons where there's a court date and you can go and defend yourself?


Court date .
In an internal memo , that was mistakenly released -inspectors were instructed to give court dates that are at least 3 months away...
With the number of pending lawsuits and backlash , I doubt anyone will actually pay any fines .
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amother




Azure
 

Post  Wed, Oct 28 2020, 5:40 pm
delete

Last edited by amother on Thu, Nov 05 2020, 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Chartreuse
 

Post  Wed, Oct 28 2020, 6:21 pm
I can bet that summons will be dismissed. But if they get a new one now, when they're open, it can't be dismissed.
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cnc




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Oct 28 2020, 6:42 pm
imasoftov wrote:
So let's take the summons from the day the school was closed, assuming they can prove that, it will get dismissed. But if the school says "may as well open", and gets another ...? "For that price, every single school should be open - up and running" - really? For the price of one dismissed summons they might as well accumulate more that won't be?

On the other hand, if you expect no fines at all will be paid
1) that's a different argument than "might as well be open"
2) are you sure? who's going to come up with the money if you're wrong?


I’ve been a part of the system for a lonnnng time (for the good and the bad) and know the way things work ....
Every community has its own internal workings ....
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amother




Azure
 

Post  Wed, Oct 28 2020, 6:48 pm
delete

Last edited by amother on Thu, Nov 05 2020, 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Plum
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 3:20 am
For being closed and getting a summon is one thing... but if u r open and getting a summon.... im sure u will all cry out antisemitism!!
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amother




Seagreen
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 6:20 am
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
For being closed and getting a summon is one thing... but if u r open and getting a summon.... im sure u will all cry out antisemitism!!



Well of course it's antisemitism if the city is only sending sending inspectors to ticket Jewish areas. Are the inspectors in black and Hispanic areas crushing their already devastated businesses? If not, then the city's actions are antisemitic.
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cnc




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 6:22 am
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
For being closed and getting a summon is one thing... but if u r open and getting a summon.... im sure u will all cry out antisemitism!!


Oh we will ...
Our numbers have gone down plenty and there has been no change or improvements in our lockdown status. There is no rhyme or reason for what’s going on ...
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amother




Burlywood
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 6:38 am
amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:
Well of course it's antisemitism if the city is only sending sending inspectors to ticket Jewish areas. Are the inspectors in black and Hispanic areas crushing their already devastated businesses? If not, then the city's actions are antisemitic.


Remind me which of these neighborhoods, with the highest rates of positive covid tests, have large black or Latinx populations with businesses that have been allowed to open.

11219 Borough Park
7.57%

11223 Gravesend/Homecrest
7.43%

11230 Midwood
6.51%

11204 Bensonhurst/Mapleton
6.49%

11210 Flatlands/Midwood
6.41%

11416 Ozone Park
4.81%

11691 Edgemere/Far Rockaway
4.68%

11229 Gerritsen Beach/Homecrest/Sheepshead Bay
8,0808,080
4.53%

11235 Brighton Beach/Manhattan Beach/Sheepshead Bay
3.79%

11367 Kew Gardens Hills/Pomonok
3.64%
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 7:28 am
cnc wrote:
Oh we will ...
Our numbers have gone down plenty and there has been no change or improvements in our lockdown status. There is no rhyme or reason for what’s going on ...


Can you explain further what you mean by this?

The "lockdown" closed non-essential businesses and schools in certain areas. People have been complaining about the hardships this has created. And I've no doubt that it has, although I also believe that its important and necessary to try to hold off a full-blown second wave.

When I read this, though, it sounds like you are suggesting that mask compliance has not increased, or that businesses and schools have not closed. Which is not what others are saying. So I want to be sure I understand.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 8:22 am
cnc wrote:
Oh we will ...
Our numbers have gone down plenty and there has been no change or improvements in our lockdown status. There is no rhyme or reason for what’s going on ...


Orange county went from red to orange. Rockland county is still high but I am not sure how many of the positive tests are in the frum community because some of them were done on Saturday. I say Saturday instead of Shabbos because now Shabbos ends early and medical care is available after Shabbos. So the numbers may have dropped but they haven't dropped enough.
Nationwide, there are more new cases than ever and mostly in places without large frum communities and in fact very few Jews live in the areas where the upsurge is the heaviest.
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Geulanow




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 8:57 am
I read that in other countries schools stay open. They take temperatures before allowing anyone in. Why can't NY do that?
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imanonymous




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 9:00 am
amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:
Remind me which of these neighborhoods, with the highest rates of positive covid tests, have large black or Latinx populations with businesses that have been allowed to open.

11219 Borough Park
7.57%

11223 Gravesend/Homecrest
7.43%

11230 Midwood
6.51%

11204 Bensonhurst/Mapleton
6.49%

11210 Flatlands/Midwood
6.41%

11416 Ozone Park
4.81%

11691 Edgemere/Far Rockaway
4.68%

11229 Gerritsen Beach/Homecrest/Sheepshead Bay
8,0808,080
4.53%

11235 Brighton Beach/Manhattan Beach/Sheepshead Bay
3.79%

11367 Kew Gardens Hills/Pomonok
3.64%


Can you please post the link for this info and when it was last updated?
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amother




Natural
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 9:01 am
Geulanow wrote:
I read that in other countries schools stay open. They take temperatures before allowing anyone in. Why can't NY do that?


That’s what my school has been doing. Closed anyway. Many schools follow guidelines. Closed anyway.
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cnc




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 10:05 am
SixOfWands wrote:
Can you explain further what you mean by this?

The "lockdown" closed non-essential businesses and schools in certain areas. People have been complaining about the hardships this has created. And I've no doubt that it has, although I also believe that its important and necessary to try to hold off a full-blown second wave.

When I read this, though, it sounds like you are suggesting that mask compliance has not increased, or that businesses and schools have not closed. Which is not what others are saying. So I want to be sure I understand.


I’m not suggesting that at all. I walk through the streets, I can safely say that 99 percent of the people are wearing masks . A huge percentage of business are shut down - my kids needed some basic socks and undershirts and I didn’t have any until some stores started taking orders over the phone and delivering at night . (Amazon didn’t have what I needed 👿)

What I am saying is that even though our numbers have gone down drastically , the governor has not made any moves to ease restrictions and based on his briefings - it doesn’t seem like he plans on on the near future.

I’d love to be proven wrong though .
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amother




Coffee
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 11:54 am
What can we do besides vent on amother. And sue them another 10 times we seem to lose because the government has so much because its a health emergency He can make everyone walk on there head and will be told that the governor can do whatever he feels will keep the people safe during this current health crisis
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