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HakarasHatov




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 12:36 am
Warning. Another covid thread It wasnt me

I dont know about other areas But in queens they appear to be following guidelines mostly . This is how they were able to win the case because they had nothing to pin on them

By contrast is appears that people in brooklyn are not following the guidelines. This is a generalization but.

A contact tracer has told us that most of the cases in her area are traced to wedding and none in schools. Others post that wedding occurring normally in brooklyn.

I’m curious, How many people know someone who went to a large wedding this past month in the red zone or Brooklyn?

I think wedding and large minyanim ( besides yomtov) in other red zone areas are the main perpetrators for spreading the virus, and showing lack of compliance. If we could just have small minyanim and weddings in the red zone/brooklyn then I think there would be a better chance at slowing the spreading of the virus or for the non jews to get iff our backs.

Its probably not about schools, could be they are just hitting us were it hurts, or where it is easier to monitor since they know the school hours and may not know the hours of Simchas and large minyanim.



To me it seems like a choice Weddings or schools? Choose weddings and schools suffer. An infection in the toe effects the whole body, no?

I don’t live there, just observing all the posts from Imamother. Maybe I’m wrong. What do you think?
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amother




Ginger
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 12:44 am
Not sure. But thank for reminding me to put bacitracin on my almost infected toe 😉
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 12:47 am
I don't live in Brooklyn but I don't know why people don't find places outside of red zones to make weddings. I realize that they would have to charter busses to do that.
It looks like much of the country is currently catching the virus so probably many people are not social distancing. I agree that is a big issue.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 12:49 am
amother [ Ginger ] wrote:
Not sure. But thank for reminding me to put bacitracin on my almost infected toe 😉


Soak it in Epsom salts in the nagel vasser shissel.
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amother




Wheat
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 2:03 am
What this contact tracer says means nothing. People lie to contact tracers all the time about where they were and who was exposed.

There is a simple way to figure out if schools or other large gatherings are causing spread. Look who's getting infected. By and large its adults. Kids have been getting sick but in very small numbers.

So, common sense would dictate that you look where adults congregate and where children do. Children, who are not really getting sick, go to school. Adults, who go to work, weddings, parties, are getting sick in huge numbers.

Do the math
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amother




Cobalt
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 7:29 am
I am a contact tracer, can confirm its weddings, not schools. There's practically zero spread within schools that follow guidelines. Even if people lie, it's pretty easy to figure out that spread is not happening within schools. I've had to send classes into quarantine because someone in the class tested positive. Only 3 times did another positive case crop up within the same class (indicating that the second case was contracted in school). So yeah, schools are really not a major source of transmission at all (though not zero. But nothing is zero. If that's going to be the standard, we'll all be locked in our rooms forever).

The reasons for it are likely a combination of kids not being big transmitters, and it being easier to mask and social distance at school than at a wedding.
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Raisin




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 8:11 am
Where I live they have also traced very few cases to schools. In fact, the concluded that kids are more likely to spread the virus if schools are closed. In schools they are following guidelines.

So here, EVERYTHING is closed, except schools. (and food shops, chemists, etc)
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amother




Teal
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 8:26 am
I live in Brooklyn and 100% agree that large wedding should not be happening. I haven't been to a wedding since March.

That said, if contact tracing is proving that schools don't contribute to the spread of the disease, then why in heaven's name are schools shut down?! We were told that mass testing and effective contact tracing is the key to avoiding another lockdown. We have mess testing, and most of the schools held testing drives for all the students and are prepared to do that as often as possible. And we have contact tracing to prove that the spread of disease cannot be attributed to schools. So schools are shut down just as a punitive punishment?

And I am NOT a conspiracy theorist or anything like that, but at this point I believe the governor just wants to keep us shut down as long as possible. He is not releasing the data anymore, because he knows the numbers have gone down significantly.
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amother




Silver
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 8:34 am
People see the fact that we were labeled as red zone as unfair and chose to ignore it!
Attended many weddings this week in bp
2 were moved from there original halls
One to another hall in bp another to a hall in Williamsburg
Most were regular sized, some a little smaller
Few elderly ppl wearing masks, most older or high risk ppl staying home (or anxious ones)
As far as I know all schools in bp are open except for bybp who’s girls are each learning in different locations
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amother




Burlywood
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 9:33 am
southernbubby wrote:
I don't live in Brooklyn but I don't know why people don't find places outside of red zones to make weddings. I realize that they would have to charter busses to do that.
It looks like much of the country is currently catching the virus so probably many people are not social distancing. I agree that is a big issue.

The point here is that the virus is spread at weddings. Makes no difference where it is. In fact bussing people is probably a bad idea unless everyone wears their mask on the bus.
I believe we really need to rethink weddings right now.
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amother




Azure
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 9:40 am
I agree we have our priorities completely messed up. Many other places schools are the last to close down, here we shut them first. My sister in London is not allowed to have anyone from outside her household even stand in her garden or she will be fined but at least her children are going to school.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 9:42 am
amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:
The point here is that the virus is spread at weddings. Makes no difference where it is. In fact bussing people is probably a bad idea unless everyone wears their mask on the bus.
I believe we really need to rethink weddings right now.


They are riding the bus every day between Monsey and the city. Maybe other locations have outdoor space which would somewhat lower the risk.
Red zones are being enforced at the moment which may be scarier to some people than the fact that their guests could get sick and spread the virus. It also demonstrates that we don't comply with anything.
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amother




Maroon
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 9:43 am
HakarasHatov wrote:
Warning. Another covid thread It wasnt me

I dont know about other areas But in queens they appear to be following guidelines mostly . This is how they were able to win the case because they had nothing to pin on them

By contrast is appears that people in brooklyn are not following the guidelines. This is a generalization but.

A contact tracer has told us that most of the cases in her area are traced to wedding and none in schools. Others post that wedding occurring normally in brooklyn.

I’m curious, How many people know someone who went to a large wedding this past month in the red zone or Brooklyn?

I think wedding and large minyanim ( besides yomtov) in other red zone areas are the main perpetrators for spreading the virus, and showing lack of compliance. If we could just have small minyanim and weddings in the red zone/brooklyn then I think there would be a better chance at slowing the spreading of the virus or for the non jews to get iff our backs.

Its probably not about schools, could be they are just hitting us were it hurts, or where it is easier to monitor since they know the school hours and may not know the hours of Simchas and large minyanim.



To me it seems like a choice Weddings or schools? Choose weddings and schools suffer. An infection in the toe effects the whole body, no?

I don’t live there, just observing all the posts from Imamother. Maybe I’m wrong. What do you think?


Imo, you're definitely not wrong. The kids are suffering because of the behaviors of the adults. If we'd stop doing these large gatherings, the spread would be considerably lower and consequently we'd have significantly lower numbers. There wouldn't be anything for Cuomo to grasp onto to try to enforce a lockdown.

But we don't want to make any adjustments. We are just adamant about continuing our lifestyles exactly as it was before, without any changes at all. Even as the consequences are being directed at our children, we still shrug our shoulders and refuse to look in the mirror. We come up with all kinds o explanations and spin about the situation to avoid the truth.

It doesn't matter what your personal opinion is about the precautions (precautions, not lockdown). But if we would have taken stock of them and listened, it is highly probable that our children wouldn't be the ones taking the hit.
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Miri1




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 9:52 am
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
People see the fact that we were labeled as red zone as unfair and chose to ignore it!
Attended many weddings this week in bp
2 were moved from there original halls
One to another hall in bp another to a hall in Williamsburg
Most were regular sized, some a little smaller
Few elderly ppl wearing masks, most older or high risk ppl staying home (or anxious ones)
As far as I know all schools in bp are open except for bybp who’s girls are each learning in different locations


I just can't understand it.
The fact that the governor is on a power trip means that we have to go all out and create situations which are known to cause spread??
Makes no sense to me, everything has gotten conflated.

Open the schools, we need those.
But why do we need to have regular sized weddings?
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 9:58 am
Miri1 wrote:
I just can't understand it.
The fact that the governor is on a power trip means that we have to go all out and create situations which are known to cause spread??
Makes no sense to me, everything has gotten conflated.

Open the schools, we need those.
By why do we need to have regular sized weddings?


Obviously people should be making small weddings but nobody wants to disappoint the chosson and kallah or leave people out. A large part of the frum economy revolves around simchas. Think about what it costs just to be a guest (dry cleaning, hair, nails, car service, etc). People who are not invited don't always give gifts and so on.
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amother




Beige
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 10:01 am
I don’t live in Brooklyn but my family does and my in laws. I constantly am getting pics of them at big simchos without masks. And tons of out of towners in the pics too. Seems like travel quarantine is a joke in ny.
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amother




Maroon
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 10:10 am
southernbubby wrote:
Obviously people should be making small weddings but nobody wants to disappoint the chosson and kallah or leave people out. A large part of the frum economy revolves around simchas. Think about what it costs just to be a guest (dry cleaning, hair, nails, car service, etc). People who are not invited don't always give gifts and so on.


And so? People's wants shouldn't take precedence over needs. We need our schools to be opened, we don't need to have large weddings.

ITA about the disappointment, but that's not an excuse for inconveniencing and/or endangering others in society. Needs come first, especially our kids' needs.

Hashem sent us this pandemic. Why the continuing stamping of our feet & throwing tantrums instead of dealing with the status quo. Instead of doing that, we should be thinking how Hashem wants us to address the situation. Should we be making waves by collectively defying all the rules? Should we be making all kinds of unscientific assumptions and base our actions off on those? Do you we make some lifestyle adjustments in consideration of other people's lives and health? Do we oblige and follow precautions, even if we feel its unnecessary, to not pull an evil eye upon us?

What is the right thing to do, first as Yid, and secondly as adults?
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HakarasHatov




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 10:14 am
amother [ Maroon ] wrote:
And so? People's wants shouldn't take precedence over needs. We need our schools to be opened, we don't need to have large weddings.

ITA about the disappointment, but that's not an excuse for inconveniencing and/or endangering others in society. Needs come first, especially our kids' needs.

Hashem sent us this pandemic. Why the continuing stamping of our feet & throwing tantrums instead of dealing with the status quo. Instead of doing that, we should be thinking how Hashem wants us to address the situation. Should we be making waves by collectively defying all the rules? Should we be making all kinds of unscientific assumptions and base our actions off on those? Do you we make some lifestyle adjustments in consideration of other people's lives and health? Do we oblige and follow precautions, even if we feel its unnecessary, to not pull an evil eye upon us?

What is the right thing to do, first as Yid, and secondly as adults?
Applause well said, I wish there was a “everyone is not doing it” ban wagon people could jump on to. I think that is the issue. When everyone is doing it what is wrong becomes acceptable.

Last edited by HakarasHatov on Thu, Oct 29 2020, 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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ExtraCredit




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 10:19 am
southernbubby wrote:
Soak it in Epsom salts in the nagel vasser shissel.

Spill the negal vasser first. Use clean water.
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LittleDucky




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 29 2020, 10:37 am
Miri1 wrote:
I just can't understand it.
The fact that the governor is on a power trip means that we have to go all out and create situations which are known to cause spread??
Makes no sense to me, everything has gotten conflated.

Open the schools, we need those.
But why do we need to have regular sized weddings?


The problem is you are asking one population to "sacrifice" for another group. The people getting married don't have children usually (because the ones wanting big weddings are usually first marriages). I totally agree that school is a higher need than a party. I even put it above minyanim and in person kollels- adults can do a lot more on their own that kids cannot. They can handle zoom chavrusas- a 5 year old cannot and will be harmed in the long run. If the 5 year old doesn't go to school they will struggle in future years too. Their parents can't work so the home will be financially unstable- more chaos in kids lives they don't need.
As a community everyone should sacrifice for the kids to go to school. No birthday parties, shabbos guests, minyanim (especially unmasked and indoors), large weddings, huge Bar Mitzvahs, after school clubs....
If we all band together we can have our kids safely in school (wearing masks and those desk/room dividers, no lunchrooms, multi class plays or events etc)
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