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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children
Why am I the only one who minds this?
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Nov 02 2020, 5:54 pm
I don’t think I’m a “crazy feminist” or in any way insecure but it realllllllly bothers me that when DH isn’t home (he travels fairly often for business) my newly minted 13 year old son now says kiddush, hamotzi, havdala, etc. I’ve done it until he became bar mitzvah and something just really irks me about him taking it over.
No one else in this position seems to mind. How do I make myself feel better (and less resentful I guess) about this?
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Mon, Nov 02 2020, 5:58 pm
You don't have to let him be motzi you, if it bothers you. You can say kiddush etc. yourself, and he will say it after you. In many homes all boys over bar mitzvah make their own kiddush after their fathers anyhow.
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Mon, Nov 02 2020, 6:01 pm
For kiddush and havdalah, it's halachikly better for him to do it as a male (I believe that is assuming he is davening maariv in both cases.) Hamotzi is no difference. I'm assuming from his POV, he's been looking forward to it.
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Mon, Nov 02 2020, 6:03 pm
According to halacha, it is preferable for him to be mother the family. However, you can still make kiddush and do the rest. In fact, why don't you say first and then him?
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Mon, Nov 02 2020, 6:06 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I don’t think I’m a “crazy feminist” or in any way insecure but it realllllllly bothers me that when DH isn’t home (he travels fairly often for business) my newly minted 13 year old son now says kiddush, hamotzi, havdala, etc. I’ve done it until he became bar mitzvah and something just really irks me about him taking it over.
No one else in this position seems to mind. How do I make myself feel better (and less resentful I guess) about this?


A lot of things bother me like this. My son learning derogatory things about women in Gemara (I’m your mother!) , the way everything that goes wrong is blamed on women’s tznius etc
I live in Lakewood and I’m not a feminist but it bothers me so much that I’ve become apathetic to Judaism a bit.
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asmileaday




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 02 2020, 6:25 pm
amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:
A lot of things bother me like this. My son learning derogatory things about women in Gemara (I’m your mother!) , the way everything that goes wrong is blamed on women’s tznius etc
I live in Lakewood and I’m not a feminist but it bothers me so much that I’ve become apathetic to Judaism a bit.


The bolded bothers me a lot. My kids know our (dh and I) stance about women. So when they repeat those kind of things that they learned they do so with a sheepish smile knowing I won't like it.
I explained to them that in those times women were treated very differently all over the world (wrongly so) and the gemara is just a reflection of that.
Still bothers me though.
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Mon, Nov 02 2020, 6:28 pm
My boys learn enough chassidus about the spiritual advantages of women (and men) that they know not to take any seemingly derogatory statements at face value.
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Mon, Nov 02 2020, 6:28 pm
who wants to drink a whole cup of wine/grape juice on an empty stomach anyway?
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amother
Lime


 

Post Mon, Nov 02 2020, 6:30 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I don’t think I’m a “crazy feminist” or in any way insecure but it realllllllly bothers me that when DH isn’t home (he travels fairly often for business) my newly minted 13 year old son now says kiddush, hamotzi, havdala, etc. I’ve done it until he became bar mitzvah and something just really irks me about him taking it over.
No one else in this position seems to mind. How do I make myself feel better (and less resentful I guess) about this?


Your feeling is very strange, I was absolutely proud every time my ds had occasion to do any of those for me. What is it that bothers you exactly?
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amother
Dodgerblue


 

Post Mon, Nov 02 2020, 6:32 pm
I’m curious, what kinds of derogatory things does it say about women in Gemara?
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amother
Sapphire


 

Post Mon, Nov 02 2020, 6:33 pm
I’m so proud of my son. I’m happy he finally got to this point in life. It gives me nachas to listen to him.
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amother
Oak


 

Post Mon, Nov 02 2020, 6:37 pm
amother [ Sienna ] wrote:
My boys learn enough chassidus about the spiritual advantages of women (and men) that they know not to take any seemingly derogatory statements at face value.


Brilliant. Lol hakavod.
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amother
Babypink


 

Post Mon, Nov 02 2020, 6:46 pm
In our house, our teenage son sometimes makes kiddush instead of dh because dh prefers it that way. I don't see it as "the person making kiddush is the most important person of the household" kind of thing. if you do, it makes sense that it would irk you for your son to be making kiddush over you.
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behappy2




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 02 2020, 10:07 pm
Does it also bother you that only kohanim say Birchas Kohanim and get the first aliya etc..Does it bother you that small children under 13 can't be motzei anyone, be counted with a minyan and more..Does it bother you that women light the Shabbos candles and not men. I'm wondering is it a justice issue or do you want to be equal or better at all times, in every situation?

I want to add that your situation is unusual with you usually making kiddish for everyone, so it could be you feel hurt. That's an emotional thing and nothing to do with feminism or genders.
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Mon, Nov 02 2020, 11:13 pm
DH is away on business over shabbos fairly often? That's unusual & I wouldn't handle this. A father belongs home on shabbos. Is it possible for DH to change his schedule so he can be home for shabbos? Is he a doctor that's on call often over shabbos?
I don't see what's there to be bothered by your son making kiddush and havdala, I'd be so proud, he reached a milestone.
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giselle




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 02 2020, 11:45 pm
amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:
who wants to drink a whole cup of wine/grape juice on an empty stomach anyway?

Wine 🙋‍♀️
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Frenchfry




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 02 2020, 11:46 pm
asmileaday wrote:
The bolded bothers me a lot. My kids know our (dh and I) stance about women. So when they repeat those kind of things that they learned they do so with a sheepish smile knowing I won't like it.
I explained to them that in those times women were treated very differently all over the world (wrongly so) and the gemara is just a reflection of that.
Still bothers me though.


Something about this post really bothers me, but I'm having trouble articulating it. I think it's the words "wrongly so", and "Gemara a reflection" in the same sentence.

Gemara is Torah shebaal peh. Torah is emes, no matter what year we're in. Some things are hard to understand, but that doesn't make them less emes.

As far as my sons making kiddush. It makes me proud too. That's their job as a now adult man.
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wif




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 02 2020, 11:51 pm
asmileaday wrote:
The bolded bothers me a lot. My kids know our (dh and I) stance about women. So when they repeat those kind of things that they learned they do so with a sheepish smile knowing I won't like it.
I explained to them that in those times women were treated very differently all over the world (wrongly so) and the gemara is just a reflection of that.
Still bothers me though.


You are teaching your sons that the torah is not timeless but rather rooted in specific outdated sentiments. I just want to point this out because I don't know if that is your intent, but that is how its playing out and the ramifications can be huge.
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amother
Papaya


 

Post Mon, Nov 02 2020, 11:53 pm
Being religiously outranked by a seventh grader whose mommy packs his lunch is kind of demeaning. There's no getting around that reality.

There's no reason you can't make hamotzi for everyone and Kiddush for yourself, though.
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 03 2020, 12:02 am
amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:
A lot of things bother me like this. My son learning derogatory things about women in Gemara (I’m your mother!) , the way everything that goes wrong is blamed on women’s tznius etc
I live in Lakewood and I’m not a feminist but it bothers me so much that I’ve become apathetic to Judaism a bit.


What? Everything that goes wrong is blamed on women's tznius? Is this just in the gemarah, because I never say that in chumash or navi?

When I mentioned to my son that the gemarah says derogatory things about women (thank you, imamother) he pointed out that the gemarah has plenty to say about men too....
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