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S/o why do we consider intellect and emotion to be mutually
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Nov 04 2020, 6:38 pm
In the thread about "the gemara's attitude towards women", many responders were women who are proud of their intelligence and seem to take offense at the idea that they may have an emotional side. Yet I wonder if the idea that intellect and emotion are opposites is a fiction grounded in today's leave-it-all-at-home corporate culture. Many of our gedolim were renowned for both their intellect AND emotion -- think Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, Rabbi Gissinger, ans dare I say Moshe Rabbeinu. Could it be that we are looking at the entire conversation through a distorted lens?
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Nov 04 2020, 6:39 pm
In fact, taken to the extreme, intellect without emotion is a defining feature of Asperger's syndrome -- not an ideal any of us would strive for...
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ExtraCredit




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Nov 04 2020, 6:46 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
In the thread about "the gemara's attitude towards women", many responders were women who are proud of their intelligence and seem to take offense at the idea that they may have an emotional side. Yet I wonder if the idea that intellect and emotion are opposites is a fiction grounded in today's leave-it-all-at-home corporate culture. Many of our gedolim were renowned for both their intellect AND emotion -- think Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, Rabbi Gissinger, ans dare I say Moshe Rabbeinu. Could it be that we are looking at the entire conversation through a distorted lens?

I think it’s just a matter of which of the two is more dominant. Every human should have some of both.
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Live+Love




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Nov 04 2020, 6:49 pm
The mind and heart are in constant controversy... Some people block out feelings to follow through their minds

In General: a woman's true power is in her heart, a man's is in his mind
Hence men can sometimes come off as heartless and women can be triggered by feelings
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Nov 04 2020, 6:56 pm
Mocha, that is exactly what I disagree with. I do not believe that mind and heart are necessarily in controversy. Rather, that they can ideally complement each other, in that emotion is informed by intellect and intellect by emotion.
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amother




Ginger
 

Post  Wed, Nov 04 2020, 6:59 pm
No one objected to the idea that we have emotions. People object to the idea that we lack intelligence, or that our emotions, rendering us incapable of thinking straight without being swayed by our feelings.

Of course everyone has both and men can be renowned for both. Somehow, though, women have historically tended to be renowned for neither.
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Nov 04 2020, 7:09 pm
OP -- I didn't read the previous thread you mentioned. I can only assume people were referencing נשים דעתן קלתות.

I like your sentiment, but in practice: if you need to determine a halachic ruling, what role do emotions play there? Be it pity or love, anger or jealousy, any emotion distorts pure justice.
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BH Yom Yom




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Nov 04 2020, 7:14 pm
Both threads are making me think of the idea in DBT about the synthesis between Rational Mind and Emotion Mind, called Wise Mind. Intellect/reason and emotion were both created as important faculties for people to use. It doesn’t have to be either/ or. Nor does it have to be that one is intrinsically better than another.
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654785




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Nov 04 2020, 7:39 pm
Rappel wrote:
OP -- I didn't read the previous thread you mentioned. I can only assume people were referencing נשים דעתן קלתות.

I like your sentiment, but in practice: if you need to determine a halachic ruling, what role do emotions play there? Be it pity or love, anger or jealousy, any emotion distorts pure justice.


I think there is room for both, even necessity for both. Think of the emotions that play out in relationship dynamics: emotional intelligence is so important in navigating right & wrong in managing conflict, keeping shalom, even doing chessed. When one has mastery over their emotions, or at the very least access to an emotionally intelligent rav, they are the better for it every which way, including halachically.
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tigerwife




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Nov 04 2020, 8:00 pm
Emotional intelligence is a thing.
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amother




Periwinkle
 

Post  Wed, Nov 04 2020, 9:36 pm
amother [ Ginger ] wrote:
No one objected to the idea that we have emotions. People object to the idea that we lack intelligence, or that our emotions, rendering us incapable of thinking straight



This.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Nov 04 2020, 9:40 pm
Rappel wrote:
OP -- I didn't read the previous thread you mentioned. I can only assume people were referencing נשים דעתן קלתות.

I like your sentiment, but in practice: if you need to determine a halachic ruling, what role do emotions play there? Be it pity or love, anger or jealousy, any emotion distorts pure justice.


Used properly, emotion can inform the understanding of the situation and properly apply justice. For example, the famous story of the Brisker Rav, who was asked whether milk is acceptable for the kosos on Pesach. While the psak was what it was, the Brisker Rav chose to answer the questioner by giving him money for both wine and meat.
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amother




Brown
 

Post  Wed, Nov 04 2020, 9:46 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
In fact, taken to the extreme, intellect without emotion is a defining feature of Asperger's syndrome -- not an ideal any of us would strive for...


Can we stop bashing Aspies? Asperger's syndrome does not include a lack of emotion.
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Live+Love




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 05 2020, 12:41 pm
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Simple1




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 05 2020, 12:48 pm
Men are emotional. I once heard in a speech, that men are just as (or more?) emotional than women, but they tend to hide there feelings more than women who are more open.
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amother




Firebrick
 

Post  Thu, Nov 05 2020, 12:53 pm
amother [ Brown ] wrote:
Can we stop bashing Aspies? Asperger's syndrome does not include a lack of emotion.

Yeah... My dh is an aspie and although it’s validating it also hurts to read this.
Aspies definitely have feelings, and their wives for sure do.
Once I understood aspergers I learned how to live with it and dare I say love it, meaning him.
I dont want to view him as a defective person.
He’s an amazingly soft caring and successful brilliant person, with aspergers.
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amother




cornflower
 

Post  Thu, Nov 05 2020, 12:58 pm
amother [ Brown ] wrote:
Can we stop bashing Aspies? Asperger's syndrome does not include a lack of emotion.


Aspergers isn't used a used term anymore.
And yes let's stop bashing it pls.
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amother




Brown
 

Post  Thu, Nov 05 2020, 1:56 pm
It's still a used term, just not an official or formal one.
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imorethanamother




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 05 2020, 1:57 pm
amother [ cornflower ] wrote:
Aspergers isn't used a used term anymore.
And yes let's stop bashing it pls.


It should be used, but that's another discussion. Calling people autistic instead isn't helpful.
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imorethanamother




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 05 2020, 2:00 pm
OP, continuing the discussion, what do you think about Chazal (and specifically Rambam) saying that Hashem doesn't actually have emotions? When it says, "Hashem got angry", it doesn't mean He actually got angry. But Chazal never say that about Hashem's intellect. It's understandable that Hashem has so much binah and daas and chachmah that the creation of the world and all the requisite laws of math and science involved don't even touch the depth of intellect or whatever it is that belongs to God.

It implies that emotion is a distorter.
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