Saying shame on you

amother

Thu, Nov 05 2020, 6:56 pm

My husband just said shame on you . To a child who hurt his sister. I’m having a very strong reaction to that usage of words . Not sure I’m overreacting.
I didn’t make a fuss just said I don’t Luv that usage of words .
But he’s not happy with me now .
Is saying shame on u to a child (4 yr old ) okay?/ not okay?

flowerpower

Thu, Nov 05 2020, 6:58 pm

It’s not okay but not the end of the world. Just explain to dh nicely that we should try to speak positive to kids. Words harm. Four year old probably forgot by now.

amother

Thu, Nov 05 2020, 7:01 pm

Thank you! I needed this validation before talking to him. I don’t think my kid is scarred 😀 just don’t think it Shld be used very often other wise he may be.

amother

Floralwhite

Thu, Nov 05 2020, 7:23 pm

Please don't ever use that term. My abusive mom used it all the time and it still rankles.

amother

Coral

Thu, Nov 05 2020, 7:27 pm

Why not? There are definitely times that we should be ashamed of ourselves. Hurting a sibling sounds like the right time.

PinkFridge

Thu, Nov 05 2020, 8:45 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

Why not? There are definitely times that we should be ashamed of ourselves. Hurting a sibling sounds like the right time.

How about "es pas nisht," it's not fitting for someone like you?

amother

Gold

Thu, Nov 05 2020, 9:15 pm

I hate the the phrase. People use it on this site and it rankles me every time I see it.

amother

Orange

Thu, Nov 05 2020, 9:18 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

Why not? There are definitely times that we should be ashamed of ourselves. Hurting a sibling sounds like the right time.

As a general rule, shaming a child is not an effective tool.

amother

Silver

Thu, Nov 05 2020, 9:19 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

Why not? There are definitely times that we should be ashamed of ourselves. Hurting a sibling sounds like the right time.

Why? Siblings fighting is a normal part of growing up. Yes it's wrong behavior, but I don't think it's anything to be ashamed of.

yksraya

Thu, Nov 05 2020, 9:28 pm

I think you are for some reason getting triggered by this phrase. While it's not the best idea to say that to a child, your objection to it stems from something that bothers you, from your past.

silverlining3

Thu, Nov 05 2020, 9:28 pm

It's not nice what you did sounds better to me...

amother

Jade

Thu, Nov 05 2020, 9:38 pm

Shame on you is harsh! It's shaming the child instead of shaming the action. I think saying 'I don't like when you do xyz.' or 'we don't do xyz.' or 'It's better we do abc instead of xyz.'

amother

White

Thu, Nov 05 2020, 9:39 pm

It’s not a supermom thing to say but not terrible. I agree with PP that some people seem to be getting triggered by it.

amother

Thu, Nov 05 2020, 10:52 pm

I think I may be getting triggered cuz dh is a s-x addict and I guess I hear/read a lot about Shame. Could that be it? Who knows.

I ended up speaking to him I just explained we always try to put down the action. Not put down the child. 🤷🏼‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️

FranticFrummie

Fri, Nov 06 2020, 8:42 am

The Torah tells us to teach our children using positive words and love.

I learned that children focus on the word that has the most emphasis on it. "It would a shame if you forgot your homework." Kids hear "Shame and forget". Kids have a particular relationship with language that adults have learned how to interpret. Kids can only work with the information they are given.

If you say "Don't hit your sister!" Kids hear "hit your sister."
If you say "That was not a nice thing to do." Kids hear "Not nice to do."
If you turn it around and say "Please play nice with your sister" Kids hear "Please play nice".

My favorite with DD was "That was not a good choice. What did you learn from that?" or "Did that choice make you happy?" You can teach independent thinking skills just by framing your words right. You want your kids to make moral choices that stick with them even when you are not around.

If you say "You are behaving badly, and if you keep it up we'll have to leave the store. You won't get any candy when we get home!" Kids hear "I am bad, and I will have to leave, and be punished. My mom does not want to be with me."

Instead try "If you can act nice in the store, I'll let you pick out a candy that you can eat when we get home." Which kid would you rather go shopping with?

Look at it another way. You get called into your boss's office. He says "Shani, you've been doing a great job with this company, but..." and that's when your heart drops. Everything that comes after the "but" is going to wipe out all of the good things he just said to you. You will only remember the negative comment that comes next, and it will ruin your whole day, or maybe even your whole week.

Don't do that to your kids. Us positive language whenever you can, even if you have to move the words around a little bit to get the same message across.

Kids are fighting:

Please play nice!
Please share toys.
Do you want to help me bake cookies?

There are a million constructive, confidence affirming ways of speaking to your children, without having to make them feel bad.

Even if you have to punish them, state clearly that "hitting is not nice" (instead of "hitting is bad"). Explain that hitting means a 3 minute time out (or whatever), get an apology, and then move on to something more positive. Get the other sibling involved at the same time, and supervise them helping out, or playing in the kitchen with you while you cook. Chances are, they just wanted your attention all along.

Holding a race to see who can pick up the most Lego the fastest is also a good way to get cooperation. Assign one set of colors to one kid, and another set of colors to the other kid, so they don't fight over that, either. (Don't let them pick the colors for themselves. They'll fight about who has to pick up the most, because there's more red than there is yellow! LOL

)

I'm going to humble-brag here for a minute. Whenever DD wanted friends over, the parents were always happy to send, because I insisted on gently reinforcing good middos, and their kids never came home wild or chutzpadik - and I never scolded.

BH Yom Yom

Fri, Nov 06 2020, 10:03 am

FranticFrummie Thumbs Up

I cannot like this post enough. Well-said!

amother

Babypink

Fri, Nov 06 2020, 10:51 am

Your four year old probably does not understand the word "shame." It's too abstract of a concept for most kids that age. All he probably understood was that his father was displeased with him, and that was probably more from the tone and body language than the word.

amother

Chartreuse

Fri, Nov 06 2020, 10:52 am

If he is a Yiddish speaker then it doesn't carry the same weight as in English.

ellacoe

Sat, Nov 07 2020, 9:02 pm

"Shame on you" was a term used awhile back and should probably be dropped. If we are telling a child to feel shame for something, it better be a pretty big something. While it is important to have a level of shame in life. It is a concept brought down in the Torah in several places, it is not positive to use it in parenting and to invoke shame on a child. Speak to children the way you would like to hear them speaking to others. Take a minute and listen to yourself and if what you hear (words and tone) would sound acceptable for your child to say to a friend or an elder.

Fox

Sat, Nov 07 2020, 9:06 pm

If you happen to be dealing with a child who is one of the 20 percent who happens to be a Highly Sensitive Person, you would probably do less damage if you beat the kid senseless. Otherwise, it might not be such a big deal. Your choice whether you want to take that risk.