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Chizzuk for deciding not to nurse
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 4:01 pm
lamplighter wrote:
I formula feed my babies. I thought Id get some support for a very hard choice I needed to make.
And now Im in tears. Newly postpartum. Hormonal. And all my feelings of guilt and shame reawakened. Thanks for that guys.
Why can't you just stay in your lane. Keep the patronizing posts on a thread about chizuk for breastfeeding.


Mazel Tov lamplighter.
Kudos for choosing to care for your newborn in a way he'll thrive.
Keep loving him and bonding with him.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 4:07 pm
lamplighter wrote:
I formula feed my babies. I thought Id get some support for a very hard choice I needed to make.
And now Im in tears. Newly postpartum. Hormonal. And all my feelings of guilt and shame reawakened. Thanks for that guys.
Why can't you just stay in your lane. Keep the patronizing posts on a thread about chizuk for breastfeeding.


Oh honey, please don't feel sad! You have to do what is best for both the baby AND you! Your body, your choice. What I do or don't think about what other people do with their breasts and their babies is of NO IMPORTANCE. As long as everyone is healthy and happy, other people need to sit down and be quiet.

You sound like a wonderful, concerned mom. That's what matters most to your baby. As long as your child is getting the right nutrition, avoiding potential allergens, and the pediatrician is happy, then please know that you are doing just fine. Hug

Mazel tov! I'm sending you virtual chocolate and cute kittens, because kittens make everything better.

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amother
Indigo


 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 4:09 pm
amother [ Beige ] wrote:
Yes, chances are even if you never gave baby a drop of mother's milk he/she would be fine. You might even find the formula-fed baby to be healthier/thinner/smarter than their nursed counterparts.

That does not change the fact that STATISTICALLY, many risks are elevated because of formula feeding. They are B"H not so concerning as to make it medically sound advice for mothers to torture themselves to avoid formula, but let's stop with the "feel-good" but inaccurate message that formula is equal to or better than nursing.

It's not. And that's okay. We all make suboptimal choices in parenting because there's more to the picture than just one specific area of benefit.

So I exclusively nurse and skip some baths, you bathe every night and give formula. No reason to feel guilty for being a human with limitations. It's a suboptimal choice, not a bad one.


This. The only reasonable post on this thread so far.

There is no denying the fact that breastmilk is best for the baby. Formula is second choice.

But breastmilk isn't the only important thing in life; a sane mother is also very important for the baby, and many times we give up one thing for another.

It's called being an adult, making choices, and choosing priorities.

And as long our decisions are medically safe, and halachically sound, we are all entitled to our choices, and there should be no guilt involved.
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 4:11 pm
amother [ Turquoise ] wrote:
Antibodies and immunity.


This is not true. Countless people, myself included, have had their breastfed babies being sick way more often than their formula fed babies.
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 4:14 pm
amother [ Beige ] wrote:
Yes, chances are even if you never gave baby a drop of mother's milk he/she would be fine. You might even find the formula-fed baby to be healthier/thinner/smarter than their nursed counterparts.

That does not change the fact that STATISTICALLY, many risks are elevated because of formula feeding. They are B"H not so concerning as to make it medically sound advice for mothers to torture themselves to avoid formula, but let's stop with the "feel-good" but inaccurate message that formula is equal to or better than nursing.

It's not. And that's okay. We all make suboptimal choices in parenting because there's more to the picture than just one specific area of benefit.

So I exclusively nurse and skip some baths, you bathe every night and give formula. No reason to feel guilty for being a human with limitations. It's a suboptimal choice, not a bad one.


For many babies, formula is better then breastfeeding. It's not a blanket statement that breastmilk is best. Every child is different. So many exclusively breastfeeding babies are miserable and colic but mom refuses to give formula because supposedly breast is best. But for some babies it just doesn't work and it's not best. If the baby is miserable, it's not best.
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 4:18 pm
amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:
This is not true. Countless people, myself included, have had their breastfed babies being sick way more often than their formula fed babies.

That doesn't mean that breastfeeding doesn't provide immunity. Let's say you feed your kids only pizza and pasta, no veggies or fruits or proteins or dairy, would you say "countless people, my self included, have had their pizza and pasta fed kids sick way more often than our healthily fed kids?" Even if that were true you'd blame it on the child's individual immune system, and not assume that it proves that pasta and pizza provide nutrition equal to that of a diet that includes fruits, veggies, proteins, and dairy. So why are you saying this when it comes to breastfeeding? Breastmilk is proven to provide antibodies for a wide variety of illnesses, but of course whether a child gets sick with common colds and runny noses etc. depends on a lot of other factors as well.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 4:19 pm
I don't have time to read the whole thread.
I nursed, and I'm glad. It was so convenient! But that said, bH for alternatives. No one should feel defensive for her decisions, the main thing is to love and nurture your child.
If someone does have a history of children with allergies, it might be good to try nursing though. And also, be aware that it's easier to overfeed a bottle-fed child. Don't obsess but do work with your doctor.
And re convenience, the flip side is also true: bottle-feeding has its own set of conveniences, and enjoy them!
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 4:21 pm
amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:
For many babies, formula is better then breastfeeding. It's not a blanket statement that breastmilk is best. Every child is different. So many exclusively breastfeeding babies are miserable and colic but mom refuses to give formula because supposedly breast is best. But for some babies it just doesn't work and it's not best. If the baby is miserable, it's not best.

How many mothers here said that at three months they switched to formula and the baby started doing better? How do you know that it's the formula and not the baby's maturity?

Babies are usually gassy and fussy much more during the first three months than they are later on. If you stick with breastfeeding and give gas drops you realize that around three or four months suddenly the baby is doing fine without the gas drops and is much less fussy. It has nothing to do with breastmilk being "bad' for the baby, it's because baby's digestive system takes a few months to mature and handle gas better. Of course if you switch to formula around three months then you might think the formula made the baby less fussy, but that's confusing correlation with causation...so many exclusively formula fed infants are sick and colicky and miserable and gassy and constipated but mom refuses to admit that the baby might be miserable because he's not eating the food that Hashem intended for babies to eat..
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amother
Beige


 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 4:22 pm
amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:
This is not true. Countless people, myself included, have had their breastfed babies being sick way more often than their formula fed babies.

Anecdotes don't change statistics.

I think there's an underlying issue here: Do you really think that EVERY parenting decision you make must be objectively the best, and do you feel guilty if it is not? Because that's a pretty upsetting path to go down. Living is about compromises, and we don't need to feel guilty about that.

And, as we see on this thread, it leads people to make some pretty wild rationalizations to justify their decisions. You don't need to. Yes, in a vacuum it's better to feed your baby with mother's milk. But we don't live in a vacuum, and in your situation the "worse" choice may be the better one.

But I'm still not going to pretend that feeding my kids hot dogs for dinner is the "best" meal. Yes, fed is best, yes I have good reasons for making this dinner, and no I don't feel guilty about it.
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 4:27 pm
amother [ Beige ] wrote:
Anecdotes don't change statistics.

I think there's an underlying issue here: Do you really think that EVERY parenting decision you make must be objectively the best, and do you feel guilty if it is not? Because that's a pretty upsetting path to go down. Living is about compromises, and we don't need to feel guilty about that.

And, as we see on this thread, it leads people to make some pretty wild rationalizations to justify their decisions. You don't need to. Yes, in a vacuum it's better to feed your baby with mother's milk. But we don't live in a vacuum, and in your situation the "worse" choice may be the better one.

But I'm still not going to pretend that feeding my kids hot dogs for dinner is the "best" meal. Yes, fed is best, yes I have good reasons for making this dinner, and no I don't feel guilty about it.

My kids ate pizza tonight and it was the best choice for right now because today was really rough and I needed them fed and in bed for my sanity. That doesn't mean pizza is the healthiest supper or it wouldn't have been healthier for them to have veggie soup with a side of cooked lentils and rice, sometimes we choose the suboptimal choice because it's better than the other option (in my case a harried mom who loses it and starts yelling is worse than a calmer mom who fed her kids pizza). "Fed is best" but that doesn't mean that what I fed them is the best and healthiest food for them to eat or that they won't suffer if they eat pizza every day.
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amother
Sapphire


 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 4:31 pm
Bottle feeding is so much better!
I nursed my first four kids and it was a disaster! I have way too much milk and leak all the time! My boobs were huge!!!! I hate being stuck on the couch and not being able to hand off feedings to someone else.
I am not even starting to nurse my next baby. It will be bottles from the first feeding. I am going to be so much happier and calmer!
You do what’s best for YOU!!!
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GLUE




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 4:57 pm
Did you know that there were a few studies to see if Brest fed Baby's had a higher IQ then Formula,the only study that found a difference was in Bulgaria? There they found that Brest fed baby's had a ground total of 6 points more then formula fed baby's.

It is a myth that nursing is free look at all cost related to nursing, such as reduced wages and you will see that it is not free
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amother
Turquoise


 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 5:06 pm
amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:
This is not true. Countless people, myself included, have had their breastfed babies being sick way more often than their formula fed babies.


Benefits

Breast milk antibodies can offer many benefits to babies. These include reducing your baby’s risk of:

Middle ear infections. A 2015 review of 24 studies found that exclusive breastfeeding for 6 months provides protection against otitis media up to 2 years of age, with a 43 percent reduction in occurrence.
Respiratory tract infections. A large population-based 2017 study showed that breastfeeding for 6 months or longer reduces the risk of respiratory tract infections in children until age 4 years.
Colds and flu. Exclusively breastfeeding for 6 months can reduce the risk of your baby contracting an upper respiratory virus by 35 percent, per another population-based 2010 study. A smaller study found that breastfed infants had greater success in developing immunity to the flu.
Gut infections. Babies who are exclusively breastfed for 4 months or longer have a significantly lower incidence of gastrointestinal tract infections, per a population-based 2010 study. Breastfeeding is associated with a 50 percent decrease in diarrhea episodes and 72 percent decrease in hospital admissions due to diarrhea, per one comprehensive 2016 review of studies.
Intestinal tissue damage. For preterm babies, a 60 percent reduction in necrotizing enterocolitis was associated with being fed breast milk in a 2019 study.
Inflammatory bowel disease (IBD). Breastfeeding can reduce the likelihood of developing early onset IBD by 30 percent, according to one 2009 studyTrusted Source (though researchers noted more studies are needed to confirm this protective effect).
Diabetes. The risk of developing type 2 diabetes is lessened by 35 percent, according to pooled data from .
Childhood leukemia. Breastfeeding for at least 6 months means a 20 percent decrease in the risk of childhood leukemia, says a 2017 reviewTrusted Source of 17 different studies.
Obesity. Breastfed babies have a 26 percent lower odds of developing overweight or obesity, according to a 2015 review of studies.

What’s more, breastfeeding can also reduce the severity of many illnesses and infections should your baby become sick. When a baby is exposed to an illness, mom’s breast milk will change to give them the specific antibodies they need to fight it off. Breast milk really is a powerful medicine!
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amother
Aubergine


 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 5:12 pm
It depends how selfless a mother is and what her priorities are.
If you are deprived your baby of nutrients because you can’t give in and give your child formula then you are selfish.
If you value your career your independence and your body more then you are also selfish.

What so wrong if a mother has to refrain from eating certain food in order to nurse a baby. On the other hand I’ve seen a mother nearly starve to death, was gaunt and pale because her baby had allergies and she wanted to nurse. Both she and the baby were much happier when she switched to formula.
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amother
Cyan


 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 5:16 pm
I nursed my dc1 for one month and it was a nightmare. I was a monster. Dc2 I didn't even try nursing and the difference was like night and day. It was SO much easier. I found that the benefits of bottlefeeding are:
1. My husband does the night feedings so I get a full night sleep. ( I DO NOT manage without sleep)
2. I am not tied down, I can send the baby out to my mom for a few hours
3. Bottle feedings take so much quicker. I have no patience to spend an hour nursing.
4. formula is more filling, so the baby goes longer between feedings
5. I dont have to waste time pumping when I go back to work. I don't have a spare 20 or 30 minutes to spend pumping.

I completely understand why most women choose breastfeeding. But for me personally only bottle feeding works. I am completely dysfunctional when I nurse. Yes bottle feeding is expensive but it is worth every penny for me to be happy, calm and relaxed.
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WitchKitty




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 5:21 pm
amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:
It depends how selfless a mother is and what her priorities are.
If you are deprived your baby of nutrients because you can’t give in and give your child formula then you are selfish.
If you value your career your independence and your body more then you are also selfish.

What so wrong if a mother has to refrain from eating certain food in order to nurse a baby. On the other hand I’ve seen a mother nearly starve to death, was gaunt and pale because her baby had allergies and she wanted to nurse. Both she and the baby were much happier when she switched to formula.

Also, if you buy bread from the store instead of making it yourself, just because you value your career/independence/body then you are selfish.

Some women nurse. Some hold their kid for hours, playing with them. Some never send to a babysitter. Some keep them in a baby carrier. People have different ways of caring for their babies. Whatever's right for you.
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amother
Copper


 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 5:28 pm
amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:
It depends how selfless a mother is and what her priorities are.
If you are deprived your baby of nutrients because you can’t give in and give your child formula then you are selfish.
If you value your career your independence and your body more then you are also selfish.

What so wrong if a mother has to refrain from eating certain food in order to nurse a baby. On the other hand I’ve seen a mother nearly starve to death, was gaunt and pale because her baby had allergies and she wanted to nurse. Both she and the baby were much happier when she switched to formula.


Thank you so much for simplifying this for me. I am now enlightened to how selfish I am. I feel bad for my poor well fed, well adjusted, emotionally taken care of, clean, happy children. What a horrid selfish mother they have.
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 5:29 pm
amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:
It depends how selfless a mother is and what her priorities are.
If you are deprived your baby of nutrients because you can’t give in and give your child formula then you are selfish.
If you value your career your independence and your body more then you are also selfish.

What so wrong if a mother has to refrain from eating certain food in order to nurse a baby. On the other hand I’ve seen a mother nearly starve to death, was gaunt and pale because her baby had allergies and she wanted to nurse. Both she and the baby were much happier when she switched to formula.


Omg! I'm flabbergasted!! This is the most absurd thing I've read in a while! This honestly takes the cake. Wow, no words.
A mother that feeds her baby is not selfish. Period.
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amother
Dodgerblue


 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 5:31 pm
amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:
For many babies, formula is better then breastfeeding. It's not a blanket statement that breastmilk is best. Every child is different. So many exclusively breastfeeding babies are miserable and colic but mom refuses to give formula because supposedly breast is best. But for some babies it just doesn't work and it's not best. If the baby is miserable, it's not best.

This is the smartest sentence I read so far.

Bec mother’s milk is absolutely the best, I think most of us agree about that!
But mother’s love and bonding is even more important! Much more, formula isn’t dog food....
And it’s hard to bond when either one-mommy or baby are miserable, these kids with anxious nervous mothers may carry scars for life.

I nursed all my babies. Best decision ever. But if I’d be able to turn back the clock id formula feed one of them, because it just wasn’t the right thing for me with that child at that time.
This child is BH not scarred but at the time DC was m-I-s-e-r-a-b-l-e and so was I. That can’t be a good start for life.
I think knowing the information is good, but The brainwashing and the guilting and shaming has got to stop!
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Tue, Nov 10 2020, 6:26 pm
amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

Reminds me, a lot of research shows a link between short or no breastfeeding and autism, but its not clear if the autism was caused partly because the baby was not breastfed/ EBF for six months, or if the lack of BF/ EBF was caused by the baby's unique difficulties as an autistic child. All we know is that there is a positive correlation between autism diagnosis and not ebf until six months.

My autistic child was EBF. My bottle fed kids r totally normal
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