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Normal for teacher to say this to 5 yr old student?
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amother




OP
 

Post  Thu, Nov 12 2020, 10:32 pm
So when I went to pick up my 5 yr old son from school in sept/beginning of yr, my son told me kids bothered/hurt him so I encouraged him to tell the teacher.

He went to the teacher and said "Moshe kicked me"

Immediately, the teacher said "well, you did it also/ you started it"...

So, I feel that this teacher is already assuming my son started but SHE DID NOT SEE ANYTHING...SHE JUST TOLD ME THAT "THE BOYS WERE COMPLAINING ABOUT MY SON BOTHERING THEM"
She told me this ONLY WHEN I SPOKE UP YO HER THAT MY SON SAID KIDS ARE BOTHERING HIM..

MY SON cant express himself well and gets speech, but my son doesn't startup with kids ...he just defends...

I'm wondering if it's normal for a teacher who at the start of the yr, who doesn't even know the kids ignores one child because other students complained ???(the teacher didnt see what happened and many times bullies complain about their victims when really they are the bully especially if they can talk properly but the victim has speech delays....

Is the teacher's response to my child the norm?? The teacher didnt say my son was bothering the kids or hurt them....but only told my son he started/bothered the boys when I encouraged my son to tell the teacher.
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 12 2020, 10:38 pm
I think you know the answer, OP.

Now what are you going to do protect your child and teach him the skills he needs so he's no longer a target/victim?
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amother




Chartreuse
 

Post  Thu, Nov 12 2020, 10:40 pm
Ok, let's say your son actually did start up and kicked Moshe first. If that had been the case, the teacher's response is fine. It would have been better to ask your son if he knows why it happened, etc etc but had she seen it all play out, yes, it's a normal thing to say.

However, if she did not see this herself, of course she should not assume. She should work with the boys to determine what happened and figure out how to resolve the issue and learn from it.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 12 2020, 10:44 pm
Send a pastry to the teacher with a note to please look out for your son by free play
so she can determine who is starting up.

If there is a situation then closer supervision is needed.


Last edited by #BestBubby on Thu, Nov 12 2020, 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 12 2020, 10:44 pm
amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:
Ok, let's say your son actually did start up and kicked Moshe first. If that had been the case, the teacher's response is fine. It would have been better to ask your son if he knows why it happened, etc etc but had she seen it all play out, yes, it's a normal thing to say.

However, if she did not see this herself, of course she should not assume. She should work with the boys to determine what happened and figure out how to resolve the issue and learn from it.


No.

Let's say OP's son daily attacks and beats other students when he's frustrated linguistically

A good teacher would direct OP to start speech therapy and possibly OT, and would coordinate with her while teaching the child management and solution skills when he's having trouble expressing himself.

OP says this is not the case. And any less violent behaviour does not deserve less consideration or chinuch.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 12 2020, 10:46 pm
Also tell your DS's speech therapist about this.

Have DS role play how to respond when others annoy him (take away his toys, tease).
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amother




Olive
 

Post  Thu, Nov 12 2020, 10:46 pm
amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:
Ok, let's say your son actually did start up and kicked Moshe first. If that had been the case, the teacher's response is fine. It would have been better to ask your son if he knows why it happened, etc etc but had she seen it all play out, yes, it's a normal thing to say.

However, if she did not see this herself, of course she should not assume. She should work with the boys to determine what happened and figure out how to resolve the issue and learn from it.


No, not at all the correct response even if she watched him kick first. Coming from a teacher here, the correct response is "Really? I'm so sorry to hear that, what happened before Moshe kicked you?"
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amother




Smokey
 

Post  Thu, Nov 12 2020, 11:05 pm
Did you hear her say this, or is this what your son reported? Because if the latter, it is very very possible there was more to what she said and he just remembered the one small part of a bigger dialogue. Maybe she was talking to both of them and while questioning them, that was just 1 thing she asked while trying to get to the root of the conflict.
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amother




Chartreuse
 

Post  Thu, Nov 12 2020, 11:09 pm
amother [ Olive ] wrote:
No, not at all the correct response even if she watched him kick first. Coming from a teacher here, the correct response is "Really? I'm so sorry to hear that, what happened before Moshe kicked you?"
..

I agree that is correct. As I wrote, this is the better way to approach it. However, I still think pointing out that he kicked first is fine, if she watched it all play out. Not the best approach, but fine. Not abnormal, as op is asking.
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 12 2020, 11:14 pm
amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:
..

I agree that is correct. As I wrote, this is the better way to approach it. However, I still think pointing out that he kicked first is fine, if she watched it all play out. Not the best approach, but fine. Not abnormal, as op is asking.


And let's say the other kids were whispering "you are a poopy-head, I'll kill you with a big rock" before the teacher saw the boy kick? Does that still make her response valid?

Fact is, laying blame rarely resolves any conflict. The old joke of the two brothers fighting - "it all started when David hit me back" - is true. We rarely know where any interaction began. The important thing is to give the children tools to deal with the situation as it stands now, not to judge whom started it
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amother




Olive
 

Post  Thu, Nov 12 2020, 11:19 pm
Rappel wrote:
And let's say the other kids were whispering "you are a poopy-head, I'll kill you with a big rock" before the teacher saw the boy kick? Does that still make her response valid?

Fact is, laying blame rarely resolves any conflict. The old joke of the two brothers fighting - "it all started when David hit me back" - is true. We rarely know where any interaction began. The important thing is to give the children tools to deal with the situation as it stands now, not to judge whom started it


Exactly. Whoever started it is irrelevant. Helping children recognize how to handle these situations and how to react should be the teachers focus, not getting to the root of the actual incident
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amother




Pewter
 

Post  Thu, Nov 12 2020, 11:21 pm
So my son 8 came home from cheder with a black and blue mark on his leg and he told me a certain boy pinched him and he did nothing which truthfully I wasn’t there for all you know my son did do something but wasn’t telling me I called up the rabbi I said my son claims he did nothing but I and you weren’t there but no child should be using hands especially with someone getting a black and blue mark he agreed and said they are working on it in school no hands etc but he will look into it and make sure this won’t happen again. I didn’t feel sending a child would help and especially accusingly.
You should have called the teacher to discuss it to begin with not send your son and ask the teacher if she can be on the lookout of kids using hands and feet etc.
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amother




Smokey
 

Post  Thu, Nov 12 2020, 11:23 pm
amother [ Olive ] wrote:
Exactly. Whoever started it is irrelevant. Helping children recognize how to handle these situations and how to react should be the teachers focus, not getting to the root of the actual incident

Not according to the latest method of conflict resolution being used in schools. Look up the Conscious Discipline approach + I messages. You actually do need to unravel it, so each kid has the tools to speak up to the other one and express what behavior was bothering them, etc. "I don't like it when you do x. Please do y." How do you know the teacher isn't expected to be using this method? Both kids in the conflict need to share and be active participants in the dialogue, so yes, they do need to get to the start.
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 12 2020, 11:31 pm
amother [ Smokey ] wrote:
Not according to the latest method of conflict resolution being used in schools. Look up the Conscious Discipline approach + I messages. You actually do need to unravel it, so each kid has the tools to speak up to the other one and express what behavior was bothering them, etc. "I don't like it when you do x. Please do y." How do you know the teacher isn't expected to be using this method? Both kids in the conflict need to share and be active participants in the dialogue, so yes, they do need to get to the start.


Isn't that what Olive suggested? Conflict resolution skills, instead of blame?
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amother




Smokey
 

Post  Thu, Nov 12 2020, 11:43 pm
Rappel wrote:
Isn't that what Olive suggested? Conflict resolution skills, instead of blame?

You are twisting what I wrote. In order to do the conflict resolution, the teacher does need to question and find out who did what, and how it started. So, what op heard from her son could very well have been a snippet of that process and would be quite appropriate. You can't do conflict resolution properly until you unravel everything back to the beginning, how can you properly have a dialogue without it?
It doesn't mean anyone is being blamed, as both participants need to accept responsibility for their role in the conflict, though it is possible that her son has not reached the stage where he is ready to take responsibility for his part. Conflict resolution wasn't built in a day, it takes a lot of practice, modeling and discussion. Some kids take a long time and many, many such discussions over the course of several conflicts to get to that point. Especially a preschooler.
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amother




Olive
 

Post  Fri, Nov 13 2020, 6:15 am
amother [ Smokey ] wrote:
You are twisting what I wrote. In order to do the conflict resolution, the teacher does need to question and find out who did what, and how it started. So, what op heard from her son could very well have been a snippet of that process and would be quite appropriate. You can't do conflict resolution properly until you unravel everything back to the beginning, how can you properly have a dialogue without it?
It doesn't mean anyone is being blamed, as both participants need to accept responsibility for their role in the conflict, though it is possible that her son has not reached the stage where he is ready to take responsibility for his part. Conflict resolution wasn't built in a day, it takes a lot of practice, modeling and discussion. Some kids take a long time and many, many such discussions over the course of several conflicts to get to that point. Especially a preschooler.


As my first post said, you ask what happened before Moshe kicked. You don't say "Well you started it"
Helping the child examine what happened and what should happen next time.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Fri, Nov 13 2020, 6:37 am
amother [ Smokey ] wrote:
Did you hear her say this, or is this what your son reported? Because if the latter, it is very very possible there was more to what she said and he just remembered the one small part of a bigger dialogue. Maybe she was talking to both of them and while questioning them, that was just 1 thing she asked while trying to get to the root of the conflict.


Yes, I heard her say this.

And to the person who says I shouldn't tell my son to go to the teacher but instead should have spoken to her myself, well, I was teaching my son that if someone bothers him, he should tell the adult. (In school, the adult is the teacher.)
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amother




OP
 

Post  Fri, Nov 13 2020, 6:52 am
Thanks everyone for the replies

....while I do think it matters who started, what I find especially unusual here is that the teacher said nothing to me when I picked him up like " I just wanted to let you know he was kicking boys today...please speak to him..."

Only when my child reached out to her, she responded as if she knew what happened and ignored my child's concerns!! Which is not to going to encourage him to speak up.

And, now I feel that since that day, she has this preconceived notion that my son is always the one who starts...the aggressor/bully....and will ignore my concerns too.....I know she didnt see what happened because

even after this incident, when I emailed her that my son said kids bullied him, she immediately responded that "many kids complained my son bothered them"....I said they were bullying him and trying to cover it up....she never saw anything....it was always the kids complained....and she ignored my concerns....

Now, 2 months in, she told me "she was making sure to watch and SAW my son push a child" I do believe it, but I know she is looking specifically for my son thinking since start of the yr...hes the aggressor so I told her

My son wouldn't do it unless its self defense....my son came home with broken glasses and no yarmulke....I asked my son if the kids listen to the teacher and he said no and they are mean....

The teacher keeps ignoring my concerns about the other kids bothering him and now that she saw him push, she told the principal (she didn't tell me she told the principal but the principal approached me....I told the principal that I've been complaining that the other kids have been bothering my son...the principal didnt know THAT PART)

I have no other school to send my son to except public school (and bullying is worse in public school as my niece who works there tells me) which is against my belief as a yehudi...and now if the teacher has an agenda against my son, if I want to switch him eventually, shell badmouth him so I'm stuck....

The teacher is NEW first yr and I think shes naive to be influenced by the "many boys who complained about my son" but she's ignorant to the fact that bullies will band together to cover up what they do to their victim and
get victim in trouble....

I'm stuck....
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Nov 13 2020, 7:04 am
OP, no one is protecting your son in class. That can be awful for him in the long run.

Is there any way you can homeschool him this year?

You can tell the school something parve like "I see my son is not quite ready for kindergarden. I'm going to work with him at home so he's more prepared for next year."

Preschool is not really necessary for children's advancement, if they have siblings or friends.
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behappy2




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Nov 13 2020, 10:08 am
Can the principal help you? You can't send your kid back every day to get bullied Sad
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