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Is ODD a thing? Spinoff gentle parenting thread
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Jewishmom8




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 1:34 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
Honestly, I often wonder if ODD isn't just undiagnosed PANDAS. It's certainly a possibility.

It sure is. One of my ODD kids at a certain point was diagnosed with PANDAS. We treated it and for a while he was better. Then he went back to his very destructive behaviors.
I am not sure how I feel about ODD PANDAS or any of it.
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 1:40 pm
I am curious if people here believe in "organic" mental illness. Like there is something physiologically going on in the brain that is causing problems.

I think this exists in a small percentage but a lot of issues stem from complex PTSD.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 1:49 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
Honestly, I often wonder if ODD isn't just undiagnosed PANDAS. It's certainly a possibility.
there is a lot of truth right here. not just pandas, but all kinds of brain inflammation. this is often discussed on pandas boards.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 1:50 pm
amother [ Blonde ] wrote:
I am curious if people here believe in "organic" mental illness. Like there is something physiologically going on in the brain that is causing problems.

I think this exists in a small percentage but a lot of issues stem from complex PTSD.


Of course there is organic mental illness! Functional MRI and SPECT scans show different reactions to different stimulus. They also show clear differences when different medications are used. The before and after affects are quite obvious.

Hormonal and chemical imbalances are quite real. In many cases it's inherited, and there is a lot of progress being done on finding specific genes. Heck, mental illness doesn't just run in my family, it gallops! 🐎

Not everything in life is C-PTSD or trauma based. Not everyone in the world is walking wounded. Some people are just born with wonky brain structure.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 1:52 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
Of course there is organic mental illness! Functional MRI and SPECT scans show different reactions to different stimulus. They also show clear differences when different medications are used. The before and after affects are quite obvious.

Hormonal and chemical imbalances are quite real. In many cases it's inherited, and there is a lot of progress being done on finding specific genes. Heck, mental illness doesn't just run in my family, it gallops! 🐎

Not everything in life is C-PTSD or trauma based. Not everyone in the world is walking wounded. Some people are just born with wonky brain structure.
also, wonky neurology will predispose you to trauma. like the study on soldiers with ptsd and their gut microbiome. The interplay between genetics, environment, circumstances, etc, is really not well understood. Psychoneuroimmunology is a triangle, and it's an emerging field. But I believe it's the future of mental health.
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 1:56 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
Of course there is organic mental illness! Functional MRI and SPECT scans show different reactions to different stimulus. They also show clear differences when different medications are used. The before and after affects are quite obvious.

Hormonal and chemical imbalances are quite real. In many cases it's inherited, and there is a lot of progress being done on finding specific genes. Heck, mental illness doesn't just run in my family, it gallops! 🐎

Not everything in life is C-PTSD or trauma based. Not everyone in the world is walking wounded. Some people are just born with wonky brain structure.


I agree. I just got the feeling from some comments on this thread and others that people do not believe so.
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Zehava




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 1:58 pm
amother [ Blonde ] wrote:
I am curious if people here believe in "organic" mental illness. Like there is something physiologically going on in the brain that is causing problems.

I think this exists in a small percentage but a lot of issues stem from complex PTSD.

I think it’s a combination of factors. Some people are genetically predisposed, often inherited, and trauma can turn the switch.
So if one’s parent has bpd and then one is diagnosed with bpd, did they inherit the gene or were they traumatized by the bpd parent or both? It can be hard to differentiate.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 2:00 pm
Jewishmom8 wrote:
It sure is. One of my ODD kids at a certain point was diagnosed with PANDAS. We treated it and for a while he was better. Then he went back to his very destructive behaviors.
I am not sure how I feel about ODD PANDAS or any of it.
did the behaviors return while you were treating, after you saw improvement?
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amother
Pumpkin


 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 2:11 pm
Zehava wrote:
Was there maybe sociopathy involved?

Could be, but no way was a psychiatrist going to diagnose that in an elementary age child. Whatever issues he had, he was born with or predisposed to. He had a normal set of parents, no trauma in his background. Sometimes it's just brain chemistry. Genetic? Maybe
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nchr




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 2:28 pm
Really not PC here. I'm pretty sure petch would eliminate most ODD.I know someone who has a child with ODD and he is miserable to be around. I stopped inviting her to my home. The child yells, won't look at someone he is mad at, sticks his tongue out at people, scratches others, blows, is disruptive, it's horrific. These parents are very nice people but also have no limits for any of their kids so clearly although the others are not very mechinech they aren't as wild as him so something is different, but I'm pretty sure some gita petch would fix him.
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Zehava




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 2:32 pm
amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:
Could be, but no way was a psychiatrist going to diagnose that in an elementary age child. Whatever issues he had, he was born with or predisposed to. He had a normal set of parents, no trauma in his background. Sometimes it's just brain chemistry. Genetic? Maybe

It’s just that the behavior you describe is extreme even for ODD. It points more at an extreme lack of empathy.
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 2:33 pm
nchr wrote:
Really not PC here. I'm pretty sure petch would eliminate most ODD.I know someone who has a child with ODD and he is miserable to be around. I stopped inviting her to my home. The child yells, won't look at someone he is mad at, sticks his tongue out at people, scratches others, blows, is disruptive, it's horrific. These parents are very nice people but also have no limits for any of their kids so clearly although the others are not very mechinech they aren't as wild as him so something is different, but I'm pretty sure some gita petch would fix him.


The ODD child I know closely, if potched will potch back. If potched again, will potch back harder. This child won't back down, and I'm fairly positive it would end with blood, broken bones, a trip to the emergency room, something. And not necessarily even the child.
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Zehava




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 2:35 pm
nchr wrote:
Really not PC here. I'm pretty sure petch would eliminate most ODD.I know someone who has a child with ODD and he is miserable to be around. I stopped inviting her to my home. The child yells, won't look at someone he is mad at, sticks his tongue out at people, scratches others, blows, is disruptive, it's horrific. These parents are very nice people but also have no limits for any of their kids so clearly although the others are not very mechinech they aren't as wild as him so something is different, but I'm pretty sure some gita petch would fix him.

If you say so. I was hit with a belt and by hand. Didn’t cure me. In fact it ignited in me a desire for revenge. As I grew older and stronger and petch were no longer an option there was no other way to control me.
I used to give petch as well. And it would have the same effect.
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nchr




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 2:35 pm
keym wrote:
The ODD child I know closely, if potched will potch back. If potched again, will potch back harder. This child won't back down, and I'm fairly positive it would end with blood, broken bones, a trip to the emergency room, something. And not necessarily even the child.


But would that have been the case if his parents disciplined him since he was 2? Before he became so wild.
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Jewishmom8




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 2:36 pm
amother [ Denim ] wrote:
did the behaviors return while you were treating, after you saw improvement?

while we were treating. I saw major improvement within the first 6 months and then it went up and down. lots of therapy lots of vitamins etc and medicine. sometimes more sometimes less.
I have been treating him on and off for about two years.
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 2:38 pm
Zehava wrote:
There would have to be a drastic sudden change for that to be true. Maybe it is for some kids and the parents miss it.


Pandas/Pans comes from neuroinflammation following infection. Even babies can get Lyme or other infections like strep or flu, and can show ODD symptoms or other PANS symptoms from very young.
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Zehava




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 2:39 pm
nchr wrote:
But would that have been the case if his parents disciplined him since he was 2? Before he became so wild.

I got hit from the age of 18 months
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Jewishmom8




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 2:40 pm
nchr wrote:
Really not PC here. I'm pretty sure petch would eliminate most ODD.I know someone who has a child with ODD and he is miserable to be around. I stopped inviting her to my home. The child yells, won't look at someone he is mad at, sticks his tongue out at people, scratches others, blows, is disruptive, it's horrific. These parents are very nice people but also have no limits for any of their kids so clearly although the others are not very mechinech they aren't as wild as him so something is different, but I'm pretty sure some gita petch would fix him.

Sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about. There is so much wrong with this post.
I find it disturbing that instead of feeling bad and empathetic for your friend you decided to judge and put her down.
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 2:41 pm
nchr wrote:
But would that have been the case if his parents disciplined him since he was 2? Before he became so wild.


Yes. This child at 18 months when hurt (by mistake, in playgroup, playground) would get enraged, run to a nearby child and shove, push, hit, bite.
If he would be smacked, he would go take out his agression on his parents or another person- the baby or whatever.
That's besides the point of potching a baby for wildness.
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Zehava




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 17 2020, 2:41 pm
amother [ Ecru ] wrote:
Pandas/Pans comes from neuroinflammation following infection. Even babies can get Lyme or other infections like strep or flu, and can show ODD symptoms or other PANS symptoms from very young.

I didn’t know this. DD had recurrent ear infections as a toddler. Could it be presenting as ADHD? If yes would antibiotics cure it at this point?
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