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Is ODD a thing? Spinoff gentle parenting thread
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amother




Denim
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 3:36 pm
crust wrote:
I think it is impossible to have one discussion about the three things you list. .

As it is right now we're not even on one page about ODD on this thread so I think its impossible to have a discussion even about each item separately because so much depends on the child and on the perception that the parent has about the child.


As long as magazines need to have with what to fill up their weekly qouta there will be diagnosis like mushrooms.

I'm not minimizing ADD or ASD or medication or using assertion when needed.

I'm saying that much of the way we perceive our children is shaped by what we hear in our environment.

It pays to take a step back and make sure we aren't too influenced before we think a child has something.
you must never have seen a seriously oppositional, defiant child. I hope you never do. Some of them have diagnoses, some don't. It's not the abc's that matter, it's the behavior you see.
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 3:41 pm
amother [ Denim ] wrote:
no I wasn't thinking about what you ate. More about the pathogenic load you carry, your microbiome and what you did or didn't pass on, genetic vulnerabilities, etc

So the adhd isn’t in my family
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amother




Copper
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 3:41 pm
nchr wrote:
I have no idea how this child behaved at 18 months old, but somehow I cannot imagine a child farfeering with real good petch. BH I don't have such a child and cannot judge but I think most kids who have behavioral problems like ODD could be placed in line, there would be a few who are obviously extreme. I'm just sure a child recognizes limits and could control himself if the consequence was very uncomfortable.



There’s an extreme difference between an undisciplined child and a child with ODD. If you don’t recognize that, just stop talking. Please. I’m begging you.
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nchr




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 3:42 pm
amother [ Copper ] wrote:
There’s an extreme difference between an undisciplined child and a child with ODD. If you don’t recognize that, just stop talking. Please. I’m begging you.


She has a child with ODD. the rest are undisciplined. The ODD child is like nothing I've seen before.
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 3:43 pm
nchr wrote:
I have no idea how this child behaved at 18 months old, but somehow I cannot imagine a child farfeering with real good petch. BH I don't have such a child and cannot judge but I think most kids who have behavioral problems like ODD could be placed in line, there would be a few who are obviously extreme. I'm just sure a child recognizes limits and could control himself if the consequence was very uncomfortable.

So you mean the petch weren’t strong enough. Should maybe the buckle have been used instead of just the belt?
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keym




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 3:43 pm
nchr wrote:
farfeer in this context is to just male sure to not cave and get his way.

ATTN POSTER you posted under sn and anonymous.


So smack the stubbornness and defiance out of the kid?
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 3:44 pm
amother [ Ecru ] wrote:
Zehava, do u have any autoimmune disorder? Thyroid etc? Were u near ticks during pregnancy? Autoimmune disorders run in families and autoantibodies can cross placenta...or your or her could have been infected with Lyme very early on. Lyme also crosses placenta (CDC has finally acknowledged this cuz babies have been born with Lyme Disease).
If she has chronically high strep antibodies and displays PANDAS behaviours, I would look into treating it, either naturally or with knowledgeable PANDAS doctor.

No no no and no
She was actually recently tested for Lyme and it was negative
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amother




Denim
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 3:47 pm
Zehava wrote:
So the adhd isn’t in my family
the genes from the other side and the environment from you Wink
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 3:48 pm
amother [ Denim ] wrote:
the genes from the other side and the environment from you Wink

The more I’m hearing the less it seems like science and more like psaudo-science.
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amother




Denim
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 3:49 pm
Jewishmom8 wrote:
while we were treating. I saw major improvement within the first 6 months and then it went up and down. lots of therapy lots of vitamins etc and medicine. sometimes more sometimes less.
I have been treating him on and off for about two years.
so, so hard and draining. Just want to encourage you to continue. We've seen huge improvements in defiance here with treatment. Setbacks too, or course. Usually with new infections.
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nchr




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 3:51 pm
Zehava wrote:
So you mean the petch weren’t strong enough. Should maybe the buckle have been used instead of just the belt?


The woman I'm referring to does not use any petch.

No one should ever go that far. I just mean real good petch to get rid of the defiance.

I also am not advocating anyone do this, just that maybe some of these ODD conditions are not real and have been created by our society. Obviously better to have a child with ODD than beat your child senseless, although some may disagree. I was just saying that I'm not sure all ODD diagnosed children belong there.
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 3:57 pm
nchr wrote:
The woman I'm referring to does not use any petch.

No one should ever go that far. I just mean real good petch to get rid of the defiance.

I also am not advocating anyone do this, just that maybe some of these ODD conditions are not real and have been created by our society. Obviously better to have a child with ODD than beat your child senseless, although some may disagree. I was just saying that I'm not sure all ODD diagnosed children belong there.

What would you define as real good petch to get rid of defiance?
And do you think that if something can be beaten out of someone then by definition it isn’t real?
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crust




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 3:58 pm
amother [ Denim ] wrote:


1. you must never have seen a seriously oppositional, defiant child. I hope you never do. Some of them have diagnoses, some don't.

2. It's not the abc's that matter, it's the behavior you see.



1. Why, because I don’t put my entire life story on imamother?

2. Exactly my point.
And when you stop looking for an abc and look into the behavior you will see that many of the behaviors have a reason.
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amother




Denim
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 4:01 pm
crust wrote:
1. Why, because I don’t put my entire life story on imamother?

2. Exactly my point.
And when you stop looking for an abc and look into the behavior you will see that many of the behaviors have a reason.
sometimes. and sometimes it's just a trigger.
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amother




Mustard
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 4:03 pm
Some kids need discipline and structure (not physical discipline). Other kids need more of a gentle approach. I think with defiant type children, you can not win a power struggle. You can't. It's just not what those kids need. My dd started at 1.5 being very, very stubborn and control oriented. What I thought she would outgrow, just got worse, and it spiraled downwards until I really resented my own child. I was horrified with myself, and I just couldn't deal with her behavior at the same time. Every little thing was a tantrum. A friend saw me in the park with her and told me it was ODD type behavior. She recommended a course (The Nurtured Heart Approach). I didn't take the course.

By age 4 she was very well behaved in gan, her issues were only at home. By the time she was in elementary school I had to face the facts that the issues were with me. I spent time understanding her innate need for control. That didn't make her bad. It made her feel safe. I spent time reprogramming myself that this is my daughter that I love. I took time to understand she is not doing this to make me angry, and she wishes she could stop. She made a huge turnaround. Really, a big change. Things can still be hard, and asking her to basic tasks can still occasionally be a control battle. But the biggest difference is how I react. I'm calm (usually). And she calms down much quicker. I actually appreciate that her stubbornness and fierceness are some of her best qualities. She's confident, and I think she will go far, IY"H.

This is what worked for us. I understand some children have a very, very difficult personality, and it takes much more work on the parent's part to see any results. I'm not judging, and I'm not blaming.

But I will just say that with these sorts of kids, punishment is the least effective approach.
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crust




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 4:19 pm
amother [ Denim ] wrote:
sometimes. and sometimes it's just a trigger.


At this point I dont even know what you are referring to.
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amother




Beige
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 4:31 pm
nchr wrote:
The woman I'm referring to does not use any petch.

No one should ever go that far. I just mean real good petch to get rid of the defiance.

I also am not advocating anyone do this, just that maybe some of these ODD conditions are not real and have been created by our society. Obviously better to have a child with ODD than beat your child senseless, although some may disagree. I was just saying that I'm not sure all ODD diagnosed children belong there.


Your only experience is with this one mother and you infer on the entire ODD population?
You know nothing about this topic, have done zero research, and then voice your opinion as if this one example proves that good ole petch can solve everything Rolling Eyes

I worked in a school with children with extreme behavioral issues/ODD. These where kids all under 12 who f they would have been older would have been in juvie (think stealing, assault, breaking and entering, stabbing, throwing rocks....). I would say 90% of the kids parents attempting spanking before things escalated to the point the came to us - and in 100% of cases this made the behavior worse.

Petch doesn't help ODD.
Treating the underlying condition , comorbidities, trauma in addition to teaching parents to implement an effective behavioral plan while controlling there own emotions works. There are tons of methods that can be implemented that work. The most important part is for the parents to remain regulated - when parents freak out because of the kids destructive behavior it freaks the kid out and they become even more destructive.
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amother




Turquoise
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 5:10 pm
I have 1 kid that was diagnosed borderline odd.
To me the difference between odd and neurotypical is that my other kids might tantrum, but deep down, they knew they had to listen to mommy. This kid did not get the memo. He did not understand that I could make rules for him, but he could not make rules for me.

We used this method through a parenting course his school gave
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw.....lSrch
Bh, he really turned around and is a great kid!
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