Schooling makes me regret becominbhg frum

amother

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 4:08 pm

There I said it.

I never have thought that this will be so difficult.
I hate my kids' school. Teachers are not professional and they don't know how to treat kids, they are often downright abusive. They don't put in an effort to make their lessons interesting and they have no knowledge of child psychology so there are often misunderstandings and conflicts because teachers treat teenagers like babies. My kids are among the best in their respective classes! However they are kids!

We live OOT and have very few schooling options but it seems like all frum schools are like that. Also, I have realized secular education is important for me and there are few options IN THE WORLD with both kodesh and chol on a great level.
Of course I never thought about it when I was becoming frum, and now I feel I am stuck. I could have sent my children to amazing public schools but now they have to go to a Jewish school with lousy kodesh AND lousy chol.

We cannot move anywhere better, certainly not now during a pandemic, and I feel like I have brought my kids into this community where there is nothing for them.

I just want to cry.

amother

Taupe

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 4:15 pm

I'm so sorry. I understand that you can't move now, but keep your options open. Ask around, get some ideas.

In the meantime, supplement what your kids are learning. A wise woman once told me that you can make up for every deficiency in your child's education except for a bad peer group.

Sleepymama

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 4:23 pm

amother [ Taupe ] wrote:

A wise woman once told me that you can make up for every deficiency in your child's education except for a bad peer group.

Great line! Very true

amother

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 4:25 pm

We supplement, but it's not even just learning. It is like, we try our best to be great parents with all our garbage background and then they go to school where they have to learn how to deal with crazies. Teachers punish them for asking questions or stirring a finger.
If kids disagree respectfully and ARE RIGHT, teachers already view it like a major crime. Lose temper etc.

ETA: my kids become desillusioned, they don't respect many of their teachers, they hate going to school because boring or stupid rules.
Etc.
Is it like this everywhere?

Goldie613

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 4:30 pm

What about homeschooling? There are more ways to do that now then there used to be because of the virus. You can even just have them use it as a supplement to fill in the gaps in their education.

I haven't done it personally, though I have considered it over the years (and am in fact re-looking at it now as a temp Covid option). There's probably some moms on here who could direct you if you want to try it. Here's some interesting articles - hope they help =

https://www.chabad.org/theJewi.....g.htm

https://www.jta.org/2019/08/01.....oling

https://www.nigrijewishonlines.....40916

giselle

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 4:32 pm

It sounds like your kids are not in a great school. Sorry if that’s not helpful, but I really don’t think it’s a frum thing. And there are definitely schools out there with both a good secular and Jewish education.

mha3484

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 4:34 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

We supplement, but it's not even just learning. It is like, we try our best to be great parents with all our garbage background and then they go to school where they learn how to deal with crazies. Teachers punish them for asking questions or stirring a finger.
If they disagree respectfully and ARE RIGHT, they already view it like a major crime. Lose temper etc.

ETA: my kids become desillusioned, they don't respect many of their teachers, they hate going to school because boring or stupid rules.
Etc.
Is it like this everywhere?

Im also a BT and OOT and I love my kids school so no its not. I think you should really consider long term if there is a better community for you. The biggest reason why I live where I do is that I really love my boys yeshiva. I would probably rather live in a red state with lower cost of living but I wont mess with a good school situation.

amother

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 4:34 pm

giselle wrote:

Could you name some (should have probably started a different thread for that).

amother

Salmon

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 4:40 pm

Your post breaks my heart.

Nobody should ever feel this way.

The only thing I can tell you is that my grandparents are BTs as well and they also wanted a better education for their kids so they supplemented a lot at home. Maybe this is something you’ll want to try too

mha3484

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 4:42 pm

We are in Chicago my boys are in the large mainstream yeshiva that is affiliated with the bais yaakov. I dont have easy children you can find my other posts here lol and there has never been a day my kids dont want to go. They are currently quarantined and beg to go back to school.

professor

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 4:53 pm

Did you consider homeschooling? At least until you find a better place to live and educate the kids

amother

Ginger

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 4:53 pm

I feel the Yeshiva system is also quite broken. But it's hard to stay affordable and still provide quality ed. Most of these schools really do feel like the blind leading the blind.

My son's math teacher is a disaster. He rightly complains that my son has trouble focusing and then takes away the things that will help him. Short term discipline that doesn't solve the long term problem. When I point this out he berates my parenting. He took away bathroom privileges for a week. (bathroom is not a privilege) Then when he gave them back he put my son on a timer. Two minutes. To go downstairs, pee, wash hands and come back. I was annoyed but knew this teacher was hopeless. So I told my son to go to the the bathroom and then run back and say "hope I made it back in time! I didn't wash my hands!"

I knew it would be the only way to "reason" with this teacher.

I'm actually fine with a subpar educational content. I'm not ok with mismanaged classrooms and an overall atmosphere of chaos.

amother

Goldenrod

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 4:58 pm

Everything in life has flaws. We were in a school that was pretty abusive and my kids were miserable. Funny thing is it was more to the modern side. We moved to a yeshivish place and the school is so warm and they are getting a great education, actually better than the modern school that I chose because they were so academic. This is not a frum issue but an issue with your school and some other frum ones. But there are also terrible public schools and private non jewish ones. The solution is to find a better place. Or perhaps homeschool. It's a pity to throw out frumkeit because you came across some people that are doing the wrong thing.

amother

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 5:00 pm

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

I could tear my hair out. Yeah such little things drive me nuts.
And then the school says: they are chutzpadik. I said it straight: I will not force my children to respect people who do not deserve it. I would not tell them to obey a teacher who does not allow bathroom breaks. My job is to teach them right from wrong and to recognize when they are treated badly.

amother

Black

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 5:05 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

No. Sorry you ended up at a bad school but most frum schools are not like this at all

amother

Ginger

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 5:17 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I know my son is being chutzpah. But I also know that a smart seasoned experienced educator won't go into a pissing contest with an 11 yr old. The issue is that in the yeshiva system ... It's an assortment ranging from experienced, wise and beloved ---- to fresh out of high school!

amother

Aqua

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 5:21 pm

my dh is also a bt. He is also disillusioned with the frum world (but not with judaism itself) but for different reasons.

We also live OOT and what you are describing has not been my experience at all. My kids have really really liked all their teachers (minus one "specials" teacher). Some teach better then others but they are all nice caring people.

amother

Maroon

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 5:31 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Is it like this everywhere?

Absolutely not. Sounds like youre sending to a terrible school.
My kids are in a regular, mainstream right-wing mix of litvish/yeshivish school. Secular studies are taught at a very high level. Multiple tracks, AP classes offered in highschool, advabced classes to prep for taking early regents in 8th grade.
Not uncommon to hear a student won a statewide writing/science contest. By the time thsy finish 8th grade, they are ready for highschool and by the time theyve finished 12th grade they are more than ready for SATs and college enterance exams. One of the boys from my son's yeshiva is now in Harvard law.

As far as the hanhala...very professional. Smart chinuch, great teachers, always having teacher trainings about chinuch challenges...the whole staff plus principal is very approachable.

Im in the tri-state area, and my friends send to different school but they all sound similar.

amother

Cerulean

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 5:36 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I live OOT. I could say all the same things. I have a child in public school since the end of 8th grade. (Not NYC, but urban, although very good for bright kids). The alternative was sending him away to dorm a few hours away, and he didn't want to live away from home. Also, in hindsight, it was good because the yeshiva he would have gone to, which has a lot going for it, has regular drug use (and all the boys dorm). My son does know kids who use drugs now, but bh he doesn't and doesn't want to, and also doesn't have to live with it. (like he would in a dorm) Also, right now, with COVID, he's learning 100% at home.

He was so miserable in the day school for about 8 years. He'd become the kid to blame and punish (and the punishments were always draconian for him). The administration makes up rules and punishments and it's very clear which families get slaps on the wrists and which don't....(ie. when the student is the principal's grandchild or some other teacher's child, there's clemency...)

He was a walking ball of stress and tension. He was a new person not being in that environment--and no, it wasn't frumkeit/isn't frumkeit. It was all the dysfunction. He was noticeably calmer and happier without it. He once gave a teacher some lip last year, but that's it. He's not getting in trouble because he's not a bad kid, and since he's in class mostly with kids who want to be there and teachers actually teaching...there isn't an atmosphere of chaos and pranks.

I have other children still in the school, who have to still be there because their father insists. And no, we can't move. BH at least they are happy there, but my youngest will probably be bored when she gets older because the classes will not challenge her, and I'll want to give her better/more in limudei chol because she will just go out of her mind in boredom. I can tell with that one.

I have no advice. My situation with my oldest was unique, and public school was the right answer. I cry to Hashem a lot, because I hate what they did to my oldest child. I hate the dysfunction and yes, abuse, that some of my other kids have had to deal with. Bullying and manipulation is rampant. I could at least stomach subpar academics if I felt the environment was healthy and not damaging, and that my kids were happy.

So, no advice, but you're not alone. Maybe you're even from my town.

amother

Saddlebrown

Tue, Nov 17 2020, 5:36 pm

Please don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater!

Just as is the case with public schools (and I know this to be true as I’ve worked in different public school systems), not all yeshivos are “created equal.” Do your HW and find one that will better meet your expectations.