What is considered an average salary?

amother

Silver

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 4:19 pm

doodlesmom wrote:

Here’s the key word, living happily vs. living comfortably!
Living happily is definitely more important, but living comfortably is being discussed here!

I think we live comfortably. My kids are happy. They aren’t missing out on anything (except maybe electric scooters which I dispise)
We have like $1500 over our monthly expenses we save. No one missed it or is uncomfortable.
Just bec society says you need a 6 bedroom house or 1 k vacations to be happy and comfortable doesn’t mean I need that or want to give those values to my children.
I don’t want my girls to think they need $100 shoes or the lates bag to be happy.

amother

Chocolate

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 4:22 pm

Re shoes:

I just have one question.

Where are you all getting girls shoes for $40 to $45? And which rock are you living under? I know lots and lots of people and not one IRL spends that little. (I happen to have gotten DD a pair of shoes on ebay last year for $45 but I know that's a one time mazal thing. And no-one else I know does that.)

Plus I see the Jewish stores are mobbed all the time.

Let's just say that this is not the norm in the frum world.

amother

Silver

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 4:22 pm

crust wrote:

Have you married off children yet? Will you have to support? How many kids in yeshivas?

As I said we save $800/month toward that since our kids are born (at one point it was more). We haven’t touched that money yet. I’m assuming iyH it should be enough. And also I won’t be paying their 10 k tuition then.

sky

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 4:26 pm

amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:

In Lakewood. All stores sell Last year styles 50% off. They are beautiful and no one knows. Specifically I go to sole connections.
School shoes - bought Marc joseph $15 a pair on amazon They are on sale now again.
Also got girls booties - leather- Marc joseph on amazon $20.
Snow Boots $20 at Marshall’s
Adidas Sneakers $25 on Amazon.
Water shoes - off brand $2-5 a pair.
I’m lucky I live in a simple neighborhood and most families dress this way. We were passing around the Marc joseph shoes for sizing end of summer.

Last edited by sky on Thu, Nov 19 2020, 4:34 pm; edited 2 times in total

amother

Chocolate

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 4:26 pm

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

$200K is I think fine for a Lakewood lifestyle.

Everyone I've spoken to has mentioned $180 to 200K as something that can be lived on (with a largeish frum family).

gold21

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 4:30 pm

amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:

I said above that 200k is very do-able in Lakewood.

Making that much puts you in the top tenth percentile of household income in the US.

By definition, 90% of people are not in the top 10%.

I know a lot of people who are making less and they are really, really struggling. Even though they live super frugal.

Yes, the salaries necessary to support frum families are in the upper income brackets of US society. Many people are making less, because, well, not everyone is in the top 10 percent. Is there a space in frum society for them?

gold21

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 4:33 pm

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

I love electric scooters lol

6 bedroom house? 1K vacations? What is putting frum families over the top in terms of finances is:
1. living in areas with expensive housing (as many frum areas are)
2. kosher food
3. large families
4. private schooling

along with no opportunity to develop ones career prior to starting a family. (boys often don't go to college before marrying, girls marry so young that they're not far into college by the time they marry)

amother

Silver

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 4:36 pm

gold21 wrote:

Have you seen the houses they are building in Lakewood these days? Housing is also becoming out of control in terms of size and needs.
If houses were standard size the could cost 450k instead of 650k (for a townhouse!!) Utilities, cleaning, taxes and upkeep are more also.
And yes it has become standard to vacation in Florida or ski.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 4:39 pm

crust wrote:

Yes, this.
I think people just want to dig their heads in the sand but this is the reality.

I'm not saying that I make 250k definitely not 500k but thats the amount you need.

Most families don’t make that. So what happens?

gold21

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 4:39 pm

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

Have you seen the houses they are building in Lakewood these days? Housing is also becoming out of control in terms of size and needs.
If houses were standard size the could cost 450k instead of 650k (for a townhouse!!)
And yes it has become standard to vacation in Florida or ski.

Could be, but many families are tight even while living frugally. I guess those who can afford the extras set the standards for those who cant afford it? But even without vacations and luxury homes, these families are struggling.

amother

Yellow

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 4:42 pm

I think what is also important is that most people aren’t earning 200k from when they started having kids, thus the first few years (especially if they were in kollel) there was minimal saving, planning for the future, investing, or buying big ticket items.
If you only start being able to save etc. later on then you need to save/invest a lot more each month.
The poster putting away $800 for wedding expenses since their kids were born, might manage, but the poster who starts saving $1200 from when their oldest is 10 will have much less saved when they start marrying off etc.

doodlesmom

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 4:44 pm

sky wrote:

And even with all this frugality you’re spending $100 per kid.
8 family members=$800 with super frugal measures just for shoes.
That 1/20th of their bodies covered lol.

amother

Silver

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 4:48 pm

gold21 wrote:

I think the problem is that we’ve set standards so impossibly high that ppl struggle to live an an over the top lifestyle.
And bec I choose to live in cheap small housing and save a lot (the difference of mortgage and taxes) ppl think we are struggling. And kids raised in these McMansions will rarely be happy with less . It’s a nasty cycle

amother

Silver

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 4:49 pm

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

But you also don’t have 6 kids. Expenses are much diff with 3 babies then 6 teens.
And I didn’t really save $800 total then. I save a set amount per kid monthly until I reach a goal amount and lower it. So I save more for younger kids then older. with 3 babies it was only sabing $450 then

amother

Yellow

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 4:53 pm

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

But you also don’t have 6 kids. Expenses are much diff with 3 babies then 6 high school kids

And In my case the income was sooo much less as well. We not only didn’t save when we were younger, we dipped into our savings to cover any big purchases, or travel to parents.

gold21

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 4:58 pm

crust wrote:

I don't know.

Help from the family, friends? Gemachim? Community? Heart attacks? Wink

they struggle, feeling alone, feeling like they've been misguided.... because nobody in the frum world is addressing this problem.

amother

Violet

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 5:04 pm

doodlesmom wrote:

Does $120 include shoes?
$500 food- how?!

No, shoes are a different category. I don't group variable expenses in a lump category because it's too much variation.

Food, we shop at aldi's. And we buy chicken in bulk. No wine. The only thing we buy from Jewish stores is grape juice and treats by yom tov. I do not buy prepared food ever, too many allergies in my home. I only shop once a week. My kids love a good home cooked meal and hate eating out or frozen foods. And I love to make them good meals!

crust

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 5:07 pm

gold21 wrote:

they struggle, feeling alone, feeling like they've been misguided.... because nobody in the frum world is addressing this problem.

They're (I mean I am part of the 'they'- don't get me wrong) into bandaids very much.