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amother
Violet
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 Thu, Nov 19 2020, 5:21 pm
| amother [ Chocolate ] wrote: | I was talking about living normally. WADR, $500 a month for food is not living normally. Unless you are talking about food for one person. Neither is $10 a month for clothing.
Also, I see that you have younger children. When you have teenagers, clothing costs are not optional. I mean, you can do whatever you want, but it's not a normal way to live and your kids will definitely resent it. And even if you don't - you never buy a new suit for yom tov? New clothing? Jewelry? Makeup? Hat? Shaitel? Those numbers do not seem realistic.
As for utilities - my water bill is almost $200 a month. And I do use air conditioning in the summer (if you live in Lakewood, I do think you must). I think $500 is pretty bare bones if you include phone service.
Some people pay more for travel to work (think subway, buses) and this is not always optional.
Also, I pay around $200 to $300 a month for gas, $400 a month insurance, and car payments. I can for arguments sake buy a car outright and not have car payments, that would still leave me with around $600 a month car expenses.
I agree you can remove cleaning help from the budget, but most people I know seem to need it so I put in a very minimal amount (most people I know spend WAY more).
And I didn't put include yom tov expenses and camp - you can add that in.
ETA: And I forgot to include braces and dental. You can add that in. |
That's exactly what I'm taking about, we live normally for us. We are comfortable and happy for us. We save because we consider many things on your list as not required and don't make us happy. Most people would not feel comfortable or happy our way.
Water bills are not in the same category as gas and electric. I never lump variable expenses together. I did not list every category in our budget.
And BH, my tween has no resentment. She knows that I'll move heaven and earth to fill her needs. I pay a lot out of pocket for her therapist and a different specialist because they weren't covered by insurance. She goes to an expensive after school activity because it's a need for this child. She knows we love her unconditionally and we taught her need versus want. We always get needs and we prioritize wants.
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doodlesmom
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Thu, Nov 19 2020, 5:25 pm
| amother [ Violet ] wrote: | That's exactly what I'm taking about, we live normally for us. We are comfortable and happy for us. We save because we consider many things on your list as not required and don't make us happy. Most people would not feel comfortable or happy our way.
Water bills are not in the same category as gas and electric. I never lump variable expenses together. I did not list every category in our budget.
And BH, my tween has no resentment. She knows that I'll move heaven and earth to fill her needs. I pay a lot out of pocket for her therapist and a different specialist because they weren't covered by insurance. She goes to an expensive after school activity because it's a need for this child. She knows we love her unconditionally and we taught her need versus want. We always get needs and we prioritize wants. |
You keep repeating that your expenses are more subdivided, so basically you spend less per category and have more categories.....when we wrote our perceived expenses list we tried to bulk all expenses since we weren’t going for accuracy, and tried keeping it simple.
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amother
Firebrick
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Thu, Nov 19 2020, 5:28 pm
| gold21 wrote: | | Nothing unless someone in the frum world decides to address the issue |
Why are you waiting for someone else to address the issue? I disagree with the everyone must learn in kollel mindset and as things are now, I doubt I can afford to support my kids much after they get married. So I sent my son to a high school that is geared towards boys who may want to go to college. If the system bothers you, don’t be a part of it.
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amother
Firebrick
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Thu, Nov 19 2020, 5:31 pm
| amother [ Chocolate ] wrote: | Re shoes:
I just have one question.
Where are you all getting girls shoes for $40 to $45? And which rock are you living under? I know lots and lots of people and not one IRL spends that little. (I happen to have gotten DD a pair of shoes on ebay last year for $45 but I know that's a one time mazal thing. And no-one else I know does that.)
Plus I see the Jewish stores are mobbed all the time.
Let's just say that this is not the norm in the frum world. |
I usually shop in Jewish stores and buy the $80+ shoes for my kids. Then my daughter ends up wanting shoes from Zara a few months in to the school year. So this year I skipped the lines and bought the Zara shoes at the start of the year. I think they’re about $40. Still had to spend on shabbos shoes, but that’s where you get $40 school shoes.
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amother
Bisque
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Thu, Nov 19 2020, 5:36 pm
| amother [ Chocolate ] wrote: | Re shoes:
I just have one question.
Where are you all getting girls shoes for $40 to $45? And which rock are you living under? I know lots and lots of people and not one IRL spends that little. (I happen to have gotten DD a pair of shoes on ebay last year for $45 but I know that's a one time mazal thing. And no-one else I know does that.)
Plus I see the Jewish stores are mobbed all the time.
Let's just say that this is not the norm in the frum world. |
I'm too young for this thread and my ignorance is apparent but just wanted to comment on this. You probably know lots and lots of people that are a similar type. I also know lots and lots (and lots) of people and most don't spend over $45 on a pair of shoes.
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amother
Yellow
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Thu, Nov 19 2020, 5:43 pm
| amother [ Bisque ] wrote: | | I'm too young for this thread and my ignorance is apparent but just wanted to comment on this. You probably know lots and lots of people that are a similar type. I also know lots and lots (and lots) of people and most don't spend over $45 on a pair of shoes. |
Curious if this includes teens and bochurim
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gold21
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Thu, Nov 19 2020, 5:43 pm
| amother [ Firebrick ] wrote: | | Why are you waiting for someone else to address the issue? I disagree with the everyone must learn in kollel mindset and as things are now, I doubt I can afford to support my kids much after they get married. So I sent my son to a high school that is geared towards boys who may want to go to college. If the system bothers you, don’t be a part of it. |
K well you're anon and I'm not, so play nice.
I'm not perpetuating anything that I myself don't agree with. Don't you think that's a bit of a leap on your part? You know nothing about me.
Where would you like me to address the issue? I'm addressing it the best way I can, under my screen name, on a public forum known as Imamother. You're welcome.
I am not my children. My choices for them are not the subject of this discussion. Or am I my children? Hmmm. Uh oh, identity crisis.
Last edited by gold21 on Thu, Nov 19 2020, 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Firebrick
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Thu, Nov 19 2020, 5:45 pm
| gold21 wrote: | | K well you're anon and I'm not, so play nice. I'm not perpetuating anything that I myself don't agree with. But I am not my children. Or am I? |
Ok sorry if I didn’t come off as nice! I’d gladly be un-anonymous but I didn’t want to share where I live... which I did.. the question is what opportunities are you giving your children?
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zigi
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Thu, Nov 19 2020, 5:46 pm
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there is a shoe sale in my comunity every few months for shoes that are 40$
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amother
Violet
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Thu, Nov 19 2020, 5:46 pm
| doodlesmom wrote: | | You keep repeating that your expenses are more subdivided, so basically you spend less per category and have more categories.....when we wrote our perceived expenses list we tried to bulk all expenses since we weren’t going for accuracy, and tried keeping it simple. |
Yes, we do subdivide. It keeps an accurate account of everything going in and out. We are also saving 3k per month on a salary of less than 200k in the tristate area and paying full tuition. My response was only to challenge the notion of how much is needed to live as a frum family.
Our standards as a community are very high. And it's my family's lack of wants that makes a difference for us financially. We have helped people, including relatives, that are spending more than we do because they have more needs than we do.
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gold21
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Thu, Nov 19 2020, 5:46 pm
| amother [ Firebrick ] wrote: | | Ok sorry if I didn’t come off as nice! I’d gladly be un-anonymous but I didn’t want to share where I live... which I did.. the question is what opportunities are you giving your children? |
Plenty B"H.
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amother
Dodgerblue
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Thu, Nov 19 2020, 6:18 pm
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All of these threads are flawed. If you are earning 57k, then you are trying to live on 57k. If you are earning 570k, then for you it’s mandatory to have sleepaway camp or a kitchen remodel. It’s all relative. The very worst thing, in my opinion, is the person who needs to go downscale in terms of spending. The slow climb from 57k to 200k doesn’t worry me as much.
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amother
Copper
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Thu, Nov 19 2020, 6:24 pm
| crust wrote: | You have 5 kids and they are all in yeshivas and you are marrying them off?
I can stop saying the facts. It won't help the reality.
Every single person that I know, regardless of where they live in the tristate area, that makes less than 250k either has less than 4 kids, the kids are small, the tuition is very low, or, is getting assistance through government family or tzedaka. |
My kids are all in yeshivas or Bais Yaakov’s.
I have children in upper elementary school but I’m not marrying anyone off yet. We can’t get by on 70k and need 90k to live on. But nothing close to the 250 you keep on insisting on.
It’s possible to live on less.
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amother
Scarlet
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Thu, Nov 19 2020, 6:29 pm
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Monsey. 4 kids. All im school. We both work and still struggle to pay our bills. We do have retirement plans. Combined income is about 200k. We can barely afford 1 car, we really need 3 cars.
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crust
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Thu, Nov 19 2020, 6:33 pm
| amother [ Scarlet ] wrote: | | Monsey. 4 kids. All im school. We both work and still struggle to pay our bills. We do have retirement plans. Combined income is about 200k. We can barely afford 1 car, we really need 3 cars. |
Thanks.
I appreciate any truth that I see on this thread.
The majority wants to continue living in the bubble.
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small bean
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Thu, Nov 19 2020, 7:10 pm
Everyone's breakdown will look different.
For exampme, I don't have a water bill. I have well water and septic. I need to clean the septic tankevery 2.5 years and it costs about 250-300.
I can't live on 500 of food. I spend that much a month on fruits/veggies.
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Thu, Nov 19 2020, 7:29 pm
| amother [ Chocolate ] wrote: | Ok, so here's the challenge, I'm trying to come up with a budget under 200k for an average size family in Lakewood, help me out.
This a hypothetical bare bones budget (not mine, just a composite from different families I have spoken to), let's see where you can scale back:
$1500 a month mortgage (let's assume they bought a house when it was still cheaper)
$500 a month utilities
$1200 a month food
$500 a month clothing (average, including Yom tov and older kids)
$1000 a month car expense - two cars, gas, plus insurance
$3000 a month tuition/playgroup/babysitting
$500 work related expenses (traveling to work, etc).
$200 a month cleaning help
$500 a month miscellaneous (everything not covered previously)
Some other expenses which would depend on family and income -
Health insurance/medical expenses
Life insurance
Savings
Maaser
Taxes
Therapy
Add this all together, and I think we're looking at close to 200k gross. Where am I wrong? |
Wait, what?
I have a large family and don't live in Lakewood but I probably spend that or less on food a month.
There is no way we spend $6000/year on clothing!
I don't buy shoes that cost upwards of $50, my kids wear hand me downs. $20 is a lot for me to spend on a shabbos outfit, my boys get one suit each.
No cleaning help
Cars cost that much? We bought used until we couldn't find a van that was, but until we paid that off, it was only $400/month. That was for a new vehicle. $100 for car insurance. How much gas already with school busses...$80/month? Why add on traveling to work if you're using so much gas? $500?!
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amother
Chocolate
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Thu, Nov 19 2020, 8:18 pm
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amother
Brunette
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Thu, Nov 19 2020, 9:54 pm
Disclaimer: we live oot.
Mortgage:1300
Tuition: 2000 (4 kids)
Cars: about 400 ( gas and insurance 2 old vehicles)
Food/grocery: 1500
Phones: 100
Clothes/grooming/shoes: 300
Utilities:400
Other: 1500( medical bills, entertainment, vacations, yt, house decor/repair, occasional cleaning help...)
= We spend on average 7k
We make 170k combined. Bh able to save a few thousand each month but as you can see live very frugally many would not live this way. Our children are still young. We have really modest retirement accounts and not really anything saved for the kids future so we need to figure out how to increase our earnings.
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amother
Wheat
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Thu, Nov 19 2020, 10:09 pm
| amother [ Scarlet ] wrote: | | Monsey. 4 kids. All im school. We both work and still struggle to pay our bills. We do have retirement plans. Combined income is about 200k. We can barely afford 1 car, we really need 3 cars. |
Your housing expense or tuition must be super high or another expense. I have three kid in school (full tuition bh) also live in monsey. Pull in about the same as you. Own my home. Bh we save each month. I have two cars. One financed (600 range) and one leased. (300 range)
Everyone has different stuff they choose to spend on also.
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