What is considered an average salary?

amother

Smokey

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 11:06 pm

amother [ Wheat ] wrote:

Your housing expense or tuition must be super high or another expense. I have three kid in school (full tuition bh) also live in monsey. Pull in about the same as you. Own my home. Bh we save each month. I have two cars. One financed (600 range) and one leased. (300 range)

Everyone has different stuff they choose to spend on also.

I think Monsey schools have very varied tuitions- Chasidish mosdos are way cheaper than for example YSV. Same with real estate taxes- one of you could be paying $12k one could be paying $30k

amother

Magenta

Thu, Nov 19 2020, 11:34 pm

gold21 wrote:

Yes, the salaries necessary to support frum families are in the upper income brackets of US society. Many people are making less, because, well, not everyone is in the top 10 percent. Is there a space in frum society for them?

Part of the problem is the high standards of living and everyone needing the same clothes and shoes and everything. Not buying your kids the right shoes is considered abusive these days.

amother

Apricot

Fri, Nov 20 2020, 12:10 am

crust wrote:

Ok. I'll bite.

You need 250k to make it with a family if 4+ in the Tristate area.

If you don't need that amount you either don't live in the Trisate area or you don't have/plan to have 4+ kids or your kids are toddlers.

Not necessarily. Im the exception to that rule- I’m a single mother. I make $52k (gross)in Brooklyn. I have 4 kids (2 over 18). I’m considered poor middle class because I don’t qualify for food stamps and Medicaid. Rent is expensive. My adult children chip in towards my rent. Tuition- don’t even get me started. I have to be frugal beyond my wildest dreams and get help from family to make ends meet. It’s all a juggling act.
I would love to know which jobs pay women over $100k because honestly I would go to school at night, online... whatever.

professor

Fri, Nov 20 2020, 1:12 am

crust wrote:

You have 5 kids and they are all in yeshivas and you are marrying them off?

I can stop saying the facts. It won't help the reality.

Every single person that I know, regardless of where they live in the tristate area, that makes less than 250k either has less than 4 kids, the kids are small, the tuition is very low, or, is getting assistance through government family or tzedaka.

You people are making me feel really bad... We make about 150 gross (maybe it's 120net) have kids married off and 8 kids with high tuition. We're heavily in debt but not complaining (living in Brooklyn) are we doing something wrong? Or are we just living with tons of siata d'shmaya

crust

Fri, Nov 20 2020, 1:30 am

amother [ Apricot ] wrote:

In other words you're not making it.
How are you the exception to the rule then?

amother

Orchid

Fri, Nov 20 2020, 1:32 am

amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:

Ok, so here's the challenge, I'm trying to come up with a budget under 200k for an average size family in Lakewood, help me out.

This a hypothetical bare bones budget (not mine, just a composite from different families I have spoken to), let's see where you can scale back:

$1500 a month mortgage (let's assume they bought a house when it was still cheaper)
$500 a month utilities
$1200 a month food
$500 a month clothing (average, including Yom tov and older kids)
$1000 a month car expense - two cars, gas, plus insurance
$3000 a month tuition/playgroup/babysitting
$500 work related expenses (traveling to work, etc).
$200 a month cleaning help
$500 a month miscellaneous (everything not covered previously)

Some other expenses which would depend on family and income -

Health insurance/medical expenses
Life insurance
Savings
Maaser
Taxes
Therapy

Add this all together, and I think we're looking at close to 200k gross. Where am I wrong?

Why is cleaning help bare bones ? If someone can’t afford cleaning help why is this an absolute necessity ?

Signed - financially comfortable and no cleaning help

crust

Fri, Nov 20 2020, 1:34 am

professor wrote:

Of course, siyata dishmaya is always important.
Especially if you're heavily in debt.

I appreciate your honesty though. You're not alone in your debt. Many people in your stage are right there with you.

amother

Peach

Fri, Nov 20 2020, 3:40 am

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

I'm with smallbean. We have 3 children BH in the tristate area. Our income is below the 200k mark. We save 3k per month. I budget very tightly and we live in a small home. We don't have a high living standard, and I think that plus siyata dishmaya work together. I work too hard to spend money on stuff that's here today and gone tomorrow. Ultimately, that is the secret. If you don't need stuff, you'll save. The more you need, the less you save. Yes, we pay full tuition, too.

You save $3000 a month? $36,000 a year, after taxes. So that's, what, at least $60,000 gross.

3 kids, minimum tuition is $18,000. So, $28,000 gross?

Cheap house or rent of $1500 per month, plus taxes and utilities, let's call it $2000. $24,000 a year. $40,000 gross?

You're edging up close to $130,000 a year without buying food, or clothing, or health insurance, or transportation.

So how much under $200 do you make?

Rena K

Fri, Nov 20 2020, 8:35 am

What about this thread is real? I am not understanding at all. Where are the kollel families, the families in chinuch, the SAHMs, what I am missing?

If I look at the IRS published tax return income data in Lakewood, the stats show much lower average incomes than what people are discussing here.

amother

Orchid

Fri, Nov 20 2020, 8:37 am

Rena K wrote:

You’re right. Most people are on programs and many others get help from parents.
The vast majority are not making 200k. But it someone makes 50k and both parents work or one is in yeshiva they get 25k worth of healthcare, 15k worth of tuition breaks, 5k worth of EBT, 15k worth of daycare... all of a sudden they make over 100k.

doodlesmom

Fri, Nov 20 2020, 8:40 am

Rena K wrote:

Those families are struggling financially, or need to live very very frugally, or have someone else paying for larger expenses etc....

That’s what this discussion is about, how can Jewish large families survive and thrive financially? By being in the top 5-10% income bracket.

Crazy!

amother

Crimson

Fri, Nov 20 2020, 8:57 am

Rena K wrote:

Yeah I thought the same thing! I grew up in a large chinuch family out of town and never fathomed in my entire life that making over 100k a year was "normal". We had very little but were happy with what we had and my parents made it work!

I only have 1 little kiddo so I am not quite at the stage where the "big bucks" are needed. I will probably never make over 100k a year at my job and I have no idea if my husband will. I am sure we will work it out! Have some emunah pple!

Just some reassurance to those that aren't making 6 figure salaries.(I know you are out there!) You aren't the only one!

amother

Wheat

Fri, Nov 20 2020, 9:03 am

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

I think Monsey schools have very varied tuitions- Chasidish mosdos are way cheaper than for example YSV. Same with real estate taxes- one of you could be paying $12k one could be paying $30k

Not chassidish. I actually pay 25k just for one of my kids so I think I am on the higher end of tuition....

Rena K

Fri, Nov 20 2020, 9:11 am

doodlesmom wrote:

I must have misunderstood, then. I think if most (90-95%) families make well below the numbers discussed here, and (we want to believe) that most families are surviving and thriving, there is obviously a mismatch. Unless you think most people are not surviving or thriving financially. But certainly I wouldn't say most people are really struggling, because there is a lot of consumerism in Lakewood (where I saw the IRS numbers), and that wouldn't happen if people are really struggling.

amother

Sapphire

Fri, Nov 20 2020, 9:28 am

Rena K wrote:

My husband makes over 200k in Lakewood. From my experience, either you are on all programs and barely making anything or you are making a good comfortable income. This is from my circles.

doodlesmom

Fri, Nov 20 2020, 9:33 am

Rena K wrote:

Unfortunately many are not. There huge amounts of debt, credit card debt, tzedaka, etc.

Also a huge amount of financial assistance in various forms. So if people on assistance will add up what they get from the govt. family etc. then they will notice that their living expenses are much higher than they thought.

amother

Chocolate

Fri, Nov 20 2020, 9:36 am

Rena K wrote:

I have a few friends in kollel, chinuch, etc. I can tell you that 100% of them are either - getting help from family, on all the programs, have a very lucrative side job, or are in major debt. There are no exceptions. (Most are a combination of the above).

amother

Chocolate

Fri, Nov 20 2020, 9:55 am

amother [ Crimson ] wrote:

I think the key word here is "tri state area". It's reassurance to those that aren't making six figures if they live OOT (and also if they are in chinuch so are getting tuition subsidized, let's call a spade a spade).

Also, costs have gotten higher (something called inflation), plus housing costs in frum communities have gone through the roof, so while it was possible to live on $100K 10 years ago, it is not the same today.

crust

Fri, Nov 20 2020, 10:29 am

doodlesmom wrote:

I don’t think that government assistance can put you in the 250k bracket because the most you get out of the government is 40-60k and if you earn 200k you're not possibly getting the 50k because it gets really sticky.

I think most people live on much less than, take tzedaka for marrying off/tuition help or community help/gemachim, have major debt and live with chronic heart ache.