When or why did chankah become this gift giving chag?

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Nov 23 2020, 4:29 am

Now, if you give your kids gifts for every chag, then this is not really a question for you.
But for those that give gifts to family members ONLY on chanukah, why is that?
This bothers me every year when I start seeing threads about gifts and chankah.
Now, I grew up in america. I saw the x-mas sensations all over the place too.
But I never needed gifts to not feel left out of that.
I always knew that chanukah was our chag and that x-mas had nothing to do with us.
So why did people start giving gifts? And why is there a need to counter the x-mas stuff? Or why now? Or why do people think their kids need something to counter x-mas? Why cant chanukah be enough or even more than enough?

Elfrida

Mon, Nov 23 2020, 4:41 am

Maybe I shouldn't say this, sincew I grew up with Chanukah presents, but I've had similar thought about the extravagent chnukah parties that seem to be becoming more of thing lately. We might have got together with family one evening, but it didn't require seven different latka flavours and 23 designs of sufganiot, and a decorate your own competition. Chanukah was enough on its own. It didn't need to be dresssed up to compete. Just like you don't need a chanukah bush.

(Especially with the way everyone seems to have decided that blue and silver are perfect chanukah colours. Flame colours would be a more natural choice, but no one wants to admit that red and gold (and green) have too many associations at that time of year.)

BadTichelDay

Mon, Nov 23 2020, 5:34 am

It's a bit of a catch.
In our dati yishuv there is obviously nothing at all to remind anyone of that non-Jewish holiday. So there's no need to compete with anything. Still, a lot of people do give at least small gifts or money to their children. They show it to their friends who then also want gifts and so on. It's contagious.
I'm not entirely happy with it because I do think it's some subconscious competition even in the absence of non-Jewish culture. On the other hand, try to explain to small children that they alone of all their friends can't have gifts or extra money to buy things Rolling Eyes

On the plus side, my kids do love Hanukka. They are really looking forward to it and started already at the end of Succot to ask how long it is 'til Hanukkah...

amother

Ginger

Mon, Nov 23 2020, 6:53 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

My hungarian grandmother says that before the war they received gifts on Chanukah back in hungary. I'm not sure but I think they also got gifts on Purim.

egam

Mon, Nov 23 2020, 8:01 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Did you attend public school or Jewish school. If it’s the latter, you wouldn’t know how a child feels when everyone around discussing the presents they got. If it’s former, you were a very strong child not being influenced by surroundings.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Nov 23 2020, 9:10 am

Elfrida wrote:

I hear what you are saying, but my post was really about gifts.
We never did not do a crazy chanukah party.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Nov 23 2020, 9:10 am

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

Idk but chanukah and the gifts were a highlight of my childhood. But we do mini gifts at the same level of afikomen, between 5-20$. But I splurged this year a little because covid needs extra cheering up. I usually try to get new books or a game for most y"t. So maybe I am excluded from your question.

But why any gifts at all? No other chag do kids get gifts, so why chanukah?

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Nov 23 2020, 9:12 am

Elfrida wrote:

The tradition of Chanukah gelt actually does go back a long way. Maybe presents is the modern permutation.

Right, but Im not talking about chanukah gelt. We got little pocket money and little chocolates growing up as well.
I mean the GIFTS that people give, every night and some a few each night. THAT is not about chanukah at all.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Nov 23 2020, 9:13 am

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

My hungarian grandmother says that before the war they received gifts on Chanukah back in hungary. I'm not sure but I think they also got gifts on Purim.

Not sure what different times in history have to do with anything Smile

But people were celebrating x-mas back in hungary as well Wink

so the chanukah gifts because of x-mas still makes sense, no?

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Nov 23 2020, 9:15 am

egam wrote:

OK, so then lets say this thread is not about public school goers but about families who send to a jewish day school. Why then are they giving gifts on chanukah?

groovy1224

Mon, Nov 23 2020, 9:21 am

This question comes up every year. Someone always says it's a spin off of the chanukah gelt tradition, others posit that it's just osmosis from x-mas season. I think the latter is probably the correct theory.

Personally, I don't care either way. It's become a cultural norm in my community, and it's one I enjoy. I grew up getting gifts, my husband grew up getting gifts, it gets my kids excited for the chag, and we don't go broke doing it. We intersperse the gifts with fun acitivities and silly games, and it's just a really enjoyable time.

southernbubby

Mon, Nov 23 2020, 9:22 am

Other than Israel, most Xtian countries make a big deal of X-mas and Jews are very aware of it. Potatoes are not a middle Eastern food and latkes may have been adopted from something that the Ukrainians ate at that time of year.
Nobody wants their kids to feel that Jewish holidays are second rate so they go out of their way to outdo them.

amother

Blush

Mon, Nov 23 2020, 10:10 am

I am sure that it became a "thing" in the US after WW II and probably coincided with the rise of Xmas in the popular culture. I mean at one time Xmas was not a huge big deal in terms of presents and decorations. Yes Xmas was celebrated but not to the extent it was now.

Obviously (for both holidays) affluence has a lot to do with it. My Bubbe was a child in Poland pre-war and even getting an ORANGE was a big deal and her family wasn't abjectly poor. But she remembers how HER Bubbe went all over to find an orange when she was sick - can you imagine any kid (or almost any) remembering the gift of an orange 60 years later?

So with the tradition of a holiday that already included some form of gifts (gelt and possibly fruit and nuts) coupled with a holiday that really is less specifically formalized religious than the other holidays, I think it easy for a tradition to expand gelt into gifts for children happened. Obviously there is lighting of the menorah but it is still a holiday that is personalized by famiiies unlike most other holidays.

I also think it has expanded. Growing up back in the day we would receive one major gift and NOT a major gift eight times or even minor gifts eight times. And no one except children got gifts of any kind although I guess there might have been obligatory "winter" gifts that my parents had to give for social reasons but that wasn't something I was aware of as a child.

I don't see anything bad with giving actual presents to children in addition to gelt. Children love presents so why not provide children with visceral happy memories. Children also love to dress in costumes for ANY reason. I think for many children their purest early memories of completely happy holiday celebrations are Purim and Chanukah. Purim costumes have also gotten more elaborate but who would deliberately not allow their child to dress up in their fantasy (within reason)

professor

Mon, Nov 23 2020, 10:16 am

Where I grew up (boro park) Pesach was the gift giving chag. I remember always waiting for Pesach and thinking about what to ask for. I remember ToysR Us used to be PACKED on chol hamoed Pesach. Chanukah was the fun yom tov with the doughnuts and chanukah gelt and competition between the kids who got the most gelt and will but the best toy with it.