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Do you celebrate thanksgiving
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LovesHashem




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Nov 25 2020, 11:53 pm
I wonder what these Rabbanim would say now about Thanksgiving with the multitude of information out there now that the history story we were all told is likely based on a bunch of lies.

The native Americans were likely forced to come and killed and raped afterwards. Native Americans nowadays spend Thanksgiving mourning actually.

In any case my mother was very against it. When she became religious she becams very anti these type of things, wanting to fit in and all with society.

DH's family always does Thanksgiving and I we join. When/if we live farther away I'm not sure if take the time to make a whole meal on a Thursday. I like the food and I like the idea someone mentioned of having it on shabbos.
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essie14




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 12:04 am
amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:
I was surprised to find out about that. No one (in my MO. circles) marks Valentine's Day, but Thanksgiving is pretty universal.

Me too.
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moonstone




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 12:21 am
Always celebrated it in the US. I went to a religious day school and we always put on Thanksgiving plays, had decorations, etc. The first few years I lived in Israel, we did a meal with American friends, but that went by the wayside pretty quickly. It's been many, many years since I celebrated and I do miss the whole Thanksgiving vibe.
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 12:26 am
LovesHashem wrote:
I wonder what these Rabbanim would say now about Thanksgiving with the multitude of information out there now that the history story we were all told is likely based on a bunch of lies.

The native Americans were likely forced to come and killed and raped afterwards. Native Americans nowadays spend Thanksgiving mourning actually.

What? Have you been reading the 1619 Project propaganda? Pls cite your sources. This is utter nonsense.

The settlers were starving and the native Wampanoa tribe helped them survive. The meal that is now referred to as the "first Thanksgiving" took place in the Fall of 1621. Their local chief, Massasoit, was one the settlers' main point of contact with that tribe.

Massasoit attended William Bradford’s wedding in 1623. Do you think he would have showed up if the settlers raped and killed his tribesman the last time they got together for a meal?

Not to mention the fact that the Pilgrims barely made it through the winter - this weakened group of people (45 of heir 102 members died the first year I the New World) was in no position to rape and kill the people they were sharing the land with, and who greatly outnumbered them.


https://www.patriotledger.com/.....nnon.

https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2017.....etts.

I am happy to give thanks to the medina shel chessed that has harbored so many Jews and allowed their communities to thrive.
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moonstone




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 12:31 am
Amen, Dr. Mom. Thanks for posting that!
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 1:58 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
Rabbi Veiner quotes Rav Moshe Feinstein that eating turkey is avodah zorah. So no, not extreme. (If you use his heter of chalav stam, then you should follow him in this as well).

Really interesting how they both said the same thing and I doubt they consulted with each other.
Im sorry but im not getting how eating turkey is like avoda zara. To me rhat is just beyond extreme. It has no religious origin. Its just a food they had and now people also eat.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 2:02 am
cbsp wrote:
This was an interesting and informative read :

Thanksgiving and America
November 2016 • Volume 45, Number 11 • Melanie Kirkpatrick
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu.....rica/

From the essay, keep in mind it's only 2 paragraphs:

There are two eyewitness accounts of the first Thanksgiving, written by Pilgrims William Bradford and Edward Winslow—although I should stipulate that the word “thanksgiving” does not appear in them. If you could travel back to 1621 and ask a Pilgrim to define “Thanksgiving Day,” his answer might surprise you. For the Pilgrims, “days of thanksgiving” were not marked by feasting, family, and fellowship—the happy hallmarks of the holiday we now celebrate—but by religious observance. They were called to express gratitude to God for specific beneficences such as successful harvests, propitious weather, or military victories. For the Pilgrims and other early immigrants to our shores, a “thanksgiving day” was set aside for prayer and worship.

From the Pilgrims’ perspective, their first Thanksgiving in New England took place two years after the event we recall as the first. It was July 1623, and the governor declared a day of thanksgiving in gratitude for rainfall that had saved their harvest. These religious days, observed in all 13 colonies, were the most direct influence on the development of Thanksgiving as we celebrate it today.
this still does not say anything about church. It said "religious observance" and "prayer and observance". This meant different things for different religions.
But why does something have to be bad if it has to do with something in christianity?
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amother




Orchid
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 3:16 am
My mother used to make turkey for us on shabbos Chanukah. My husband dislikes turkey, and he isn’t American, so our typical thanksgiving is me covering for someone at work so they can be home with their family. Some of my kids have school and some don’t. And I wish people Happy Thanksgiving back if they wish me.
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Reality




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 3:33 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Im sorry but im not getting how eating turkey is like avoda zara. To me rhat is just beyond extreme. It has no religious origin. Its just a food they had and now people also eat.


Especially since most likely they didn't eat turkey at the first Thanksgiving.

I'm also scratching my head at the avodah zarah part all together.

The Puritans were an extreme reformed church. No idols. No songs and incense. No pictures. Only praying to G-d. Where is the avodah zarah?

Has anyone been inside a Quaker Meeting House? Or an Amish Meeting House? There isn't even a cross hanging. It isn't ossur to enter because they worship G-d. The same G-d we worship. The Puritans were a very similar sect. So I really don't understand how anyone can say they were oivdei avodah zarah.
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sequoia




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 3:34 am
Yes.
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Chickensoupprof




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 3:52 am
No! But we don't have it in the Netherlands lol. What I do is celebrate the 5th of May (the day we got freed by the Germans) and Kingsday! Kingsday is fun with flee markets and music and parades..
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Reality




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 3:56 am
DrMom wrote:
What? Have you been reading the 1619 Project propaganda? Pls cite your sources. This is utter nonsense.

The settlers were starving and the native Wampanoa tribe helped them survive. The meal that is now referred to as the "first Thanksgiving" took place in the Fall of 1621. Their local chief, Massasoit, was one the settlers' main point of contact with that tribe.

Massasoit attended William Bradford’s wedding in 1623. Do you think he would have showed up if the settlers raped and killed his tribesman the last time they got together for a meal?

Not to mention the fact that the Pilgrims barely made it through the winter - this weakened group of people (45 of heir 102 members died the first year I the New World) was in no position to rape and kill the people they were sharing the land with, and who greatly outnumbered them.


https://www.patriotledger.com/.....nnon.

https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2017.....etts.

I am happy to give thanks to the medina shel chessed that has harbored so many Jews and allowed their communities to thrive.


Liking this wasn't enough!
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icebreaker




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 3:57 am
Yes! Not going all out for the meal tho lol.
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Reality




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 4:02 am
Do the anti- Thanksgiving people also not have 4th of July BBQ's? Because that seems pretty universally accepted in right wing frum culture. I don't see the difference at all. The founding fathers were also very religious. But they were Deists. If you read their writings they quote very heavily from the Old Testament and not from the New Testament. Don't you think those first celebrations of 4th of July involved prayer and thank you to G-d from saving them from the British?
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imasinger




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 4:32 am
Courtesy of a Chabad friend:

Thanksgiving Song by: Mrs. Risya Posner A"H (T.T.O. It's a Small World)
From the morning sun to the stars so bright
From Modeh Ani to Shema every night
From the Brocha on bread to the Torah we read
It's a Thanksgiving day.
From the fruit that grows on the tree so high
From vegetables to pizza pie
From the candy so sweet to the cool ice cream treat
It's a Thanksgiving day!

Chorus

We thank Hashem for Mom and Dad,
and for the good things that we have
For us, each and every day
Is a thanksgiving day.
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cbsp




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 4:45 am
Reality wrote:
Especially since most likely they didn't eat turkey at the first Thanksgiving.

I'm also scratching my head at the avodah zarah part all together.

The Puritans were an extreme reformed church. No idols. No songs and incense. No pictures. Only praying to G-d. Where is the avodah zarah?

Has anyone been inside a Quaker Meeting House? Or an Amish Meeting House? There isn't even a cross hanging. It isn't ossur to enter because they worship G-d. The same G-d we worship. The Puritans were a very similar sect. So I really don't understand how anyone can say they were oivdei avodah zarah.


Because for aino yehudim the way the quaker's Amish, and Puritans serve G-D may not be considered avoda zora. But last I checked we're yehudim and we have our own Torah and celebrate yiddish yomim tovim. (side note: if they believe in the late JC and the trinity then it's most certainly Avoda Zora for a yehudi - ya know, "lo yihyeh lecha" means One, not three. For aino yehudim, though, it may not be a problem)

And we're BH in a country that allows us freedom of religion so we don't need to turn Thanksgiving into a pikuach nefesh situation and find a heter as to why it's not. (like the letter from the Rambam who differentiated between those being forced to convert to Islam vs Christianity.)

I think those amothers calling the psak of poskim extreme and ridiculous need to talk and write with more respect, even about a posek they don't necessarily follow.
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cbsp




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 4:48 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
this still does not say anything about church. It said "religious observance" and "prayer and observance". This meant different things for different religions.
But why does something have to be bad if it has to do with something in christianity?


Who said anything about church? Why is only church a problem?

If you as a religious Jew decides to celebrate a day founded as a religious day for another religion it's a problem.
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singleagain




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 4:50 am
The Wednesday before Thanksgiving is historically the worst travel day in America. This is because Thanksgiving is a day celebrated across religions in America.

Either historical reasons matter more than current connotations or they don't. No one would dream of dropping the n-word in casual conversation because now it means something pejorative. Yet why are we so anti something like Thanksgiving that now is extremely secular.
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Reality




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 5:00 am
cbsp wrote:
Because for aino yehudim the way the quaker's Amish, and Puritans serve G-D may not be considered avoda zora. But last I checked we're yehudim and we have our own Torah and celebrate yiddish yomim tovim. (side note: if they believe in the late JC and the trinity then it's most certainly Avoda Zora for a yehudi - ya know, "lo yihyeh lecha" means One, not three. For aino yehudim, though, it may not be a problem)

And we're BH in a country that allows us freedom of religion so we don't need to turn Thanksgiving into a pikuach nefesh situation and find a heter as to why it's not. (like the letter from the Rambam who differentiated between those being forced to convert to Islam vs Christianity.)

I think those amothers calling the psak of poskim extreme and ridiculous need to talk and write with more respect, even about a posek they don't necessarily follow.


If you can even ask me if the Puritans believed in the trinity then that shows me you have zero knowledge regarding the protestant reformation.

I will repeat again. There is no issue with entering a Quaker meeting house. Why? Because there are no idols. They don't worship anyone except the One Above. Same as we do. The Puritans were the same. They are not the same like todays Protestant church.

Learn some history!!

And all I is that it is a minority opinion.

And to another earlier poster, I do not eat chalav stam. And I don't religiously observe Thanksgiving. But to call it avodah zarah? It's a minority opinion.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 5:21 am
I am planning to eat turkey today but I don't believe in black Friday.
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