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Do you celebrate thanksgiving
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dancingqueen




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 6:55 am
“Why do so many Jews, including many Orthodox Jews, celebrate Thanksgiving? Doesn’t that have Christian roots, as well?

Well, actually, no. It doesn’t. Despite the fact that it was instituted by the Pilgrims, Thanksgiving is not a religious holiday. Its motivation is to thank G-d for the freedoms we enjoy in America. This is a sentiment shared by citizens of all religions. It is a celebration unique to this country and not associated with any religious group. While there are those rabbis (Rav Hutner, for example) who opposed any holiday based on the secular calendar as “not Jewish,” a majority (Rav Henkin, Rav Moshe Feinstein, Rav Soloveitchik, et al.) did not prohibit commemorating Thanksgiving (although Rav Moshe did discourage it for particularly pious people).”
From OU Torah.
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amother




Honeydew
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 6:58 am
essie14 wrote:
Exactly. Non Jews do plenty of things that we also do. Eating turkey and cranberry sauce is hardly in the category of worshipping idols or putting a statue of J-sus on the crucifix in our shul.
At least in my MO circles)

And that is the crux of your problem 😉
-a Teaneck living, Frisch sending, Moshava loving mom.
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singleagain




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 7:10 am
MiriFr wrote:
Cuz they’re teeny, and one of them doesn’t even speak English yet
But maybe I’ll suggest that for my husband LOL


Tell me ages and what they usually do and maybe I can help think of more ideas and what they usually do and maybe I can help think of more ideas
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singleagain




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 7:12 am
cbsp wrote:
Not so simple. Bechukoseihem is an actual issur and there are halachic parameters.

I posted a link above to Rabbi Viener's series on the subject so you can familiarize yourself with the concept...


I'm working in a kosher grocery I don't have time to do this because half of our staff is out because they do celebrate it and the other and half of our customers are you know here because it's shabbos and some people are doing things and does it really matter in the end I mean this isn't a between me and you this is a between me and God so let me in God figure this one out and I'll let you in God figure it out for you and I won't tell anyone what to do and don't tell anyone else what to do




Plus the whole 70 faces to the Torah thing so we're all right and we're all wrong
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cbsp




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 7:21 am
singleagain wrote:
I'm working in a kosher grocery I don't have time to do this because half of our staff is out because they do celebrate it and the other and half of our customers are you know here because it's shabbos and some people are doing things and does it really matter in the end I mean this isn't a between me and you this is a between me and God so let me in God figure this one out and I'll let you in God figure it out for you and I won't tell anyone what to do and don't tell anyone else what to do




Plus the whole 70 faces to the Torah thing so we're all right and we're all wrong


To clarify, I was talking about the issur of Bechukoseihem. Not specifically Thanksgiving.

It's a real issur.

Whether Thanksgiving falls into that category is where the 70 panim come in.

You said you never heard of it and then outright dismissed it as foolish. So I was giving you a place to learn about the concept (again, not specifically Thanksgiving).
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singleagain




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 7:27 am
cbsp wrote:
To clarify, I was talking about the issur of Bechukoseihem. Not specifically Thanksgiving.

It's a real issur.

Whether Thanksgiving falls into that category is where the 70 panim come in.

You said you never heard of it and then outright dismissed it as foolish. So I was giving you a place to learn about the concept (again, not specifically Thanksgiving).


Again disclaimer voice to texting

I don't think I ever said that thing was foolish it just when it sounds it in relation to Thanksgiving it sounded really you know what I don't have time to argue I'm sorry my head is in a million different places because like I said I'm working in a store and it's very busy This ride was about Thanksgiving so that's what I thought the post was about
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funkyfrummom




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 10:30 am
In our family we do thanksgiving, kinda. It is not a big deal, nor was it in my family growing up. It is more of a week-day meal, than fancy like shabbos. My son is always in yeshiva (that's why it's "kinda").

Whomever is available/home, we eat traditional foods at a meal that is EARLY in the day... like 11 or noon. (Today, we have already ate.) Sometimes, because son misses it on Thursday, I have turkey on the shabbos or sunday after thanksgiving if he will be home. For what it is worth, I serve turkey throughout the year. I would guess once every month or two.

I do it because I grew up with it. There was never anything xtian about it, it was just a unique meal with immediate family on a day everyone was off work/school. Both my parents grew up with it, too.

We eat a meal with the foods I grew up with for Thanksgiving (turkey, stuffing, gravy, cranberry sauce, sweet potatoes, mashed potatoes with baby peas, and pumpkin or pecan pie). We usually drink sparkling apple cider, again just because that was what my mom always served and it is seems fall-appropriate. I sometimes watch one of the football games that are on in the afternoon, because (again) that is what we did in my family growing up. I always call home, and also send messages or call to friends or family who I know are celebrating it. I express my gratitude to have them in my life. Yes, I am thankful every day, but make a point to express it. We nosh on leftovers for dinner (making it into a turkey and dressing sandwich) and usually Friday lunch, too.

In the afternoon, I usually try to think of any things that truly need buying and then I look to see if I they are available at a good sale price. In other words, I try to take advantage of the black friday sales that I can do online (don't like to go into crazy stores).

Also, I live in NYC and when my children were small (stroller age) we would go uptown to see the balloons being inflated for the macy's parade. They really enjoyed it, although they don't remember it nowadays.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 10:53 am
When I became frum I asked a shaila about celebrating federal holidays and was told that it was allowed. I would say that most people that I knew who grew up frum had no interest in these holidays but they did go to parades or other free and fun activities. It had nothing to do with patriotism and although every day is mothers and father's day, it doesn't hurt to express appreciation once in awhile.
Some day schools close on Thanksgiving but Torah learning should still happen to some extent. This was problematic; allowing Torah learning to be put aside for a secular holiday.

As far as black Friday, some people love the excitement and the crowds but there is nothing wrong with giving kids money and telling them to save it for after the holidays when everything goes on sale. I did black Friday once and didn't enjoy it and didn't go back. It's also too short of an erev Shabbos.
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amother




Chartreuse
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 11:14 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
I still dont understand how any normal rabbi could tell people that it is assur to eat turkey. I mean, what???? Thats just beyond strange. THAT has nothing to do with religion at all.


Turkey in a certain context can be assur. Just like milk can be assur after you just ate meat. And having relations can be Assur if you have your period.
As Jews we have rabbis to listen to. It’s part of our makeup. You have the choice to carve your own way and find a rabbi that works with your beliefs. But you can’t knock a rabbi on a public forum just because something doesn’t sit well with your emotions.
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amother




Honeydew
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 11:26 am
Yes!
We celebrate Thanksgiving in our family. It was a very special day to my (Frum) grandmother A"H. To her, it was the epitome of being an American. It was an opportunity for her to show her Hakarat Hatov to both Hashem and the country where she was able to seek refuge. She came from Germany in November 1938, after living through Kristallnacht. She came on the last boat to leave Germany for the US. She came as an 18 year old, alone, and was never to see her family again, as they were only able to secure a visa for her.
She never stopped appreciating her safety and religious freedom in this country.
Furthermore, Thanksgiving was a day when she did not work-as she worked 6 days a week (squirreling away whatever pennies she could in hopes of bringing over her parents, to safety) and this was a day when (extended) family could get together and celebrate their freedom and reflect on all the bracha they had in their lives. Being Shomer Shabbos and TY and living in a shared tenement apartment makes celebrating YT with a larger group impossible.
To me, Thanksgiving will always be celebrated in honor of my Grandmother, who through all the adversity and hardships she faced, was always able to see the Bracha, to find joy and show Hakarat Hatov.
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amother




Lilac
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 11:36 am
amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:
Turkey in a certain context can be assur. Just like milk can be assur after you just ate meat. And having relations can be Assur if you have your period.
As Jews we have rabbis to listen to. It’s part of our makeup. You have the choice to carve your own way and find a rabbi that works with your beliefs. But you can’t knock a rabbi on a public forum just because something doesn’t sit well with your emotions.


The only way I can see turkey as being assur is if it isn’t kosher What
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STMommy




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 11:41 am
Yes!
We just don't treat it like yuntif.

Signed,
Turkey is in the oven as I type this Smile
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heidi




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 12:48 pm
We celebrate the foods of Thanksgiving, which I love, at a Friday night meal.
Turkey, stuffing, cranberries, sweet potatoes . . .
If not for America my grandparents would probably have been ashes in Auschwitz. Definitely a reason to celebrate.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 12:57 pm
Just reading the last page.
I know a BT who hosts Thanksgiving for her extended family because this is the one time she can have them without worrying about driving, e.g. the seder.
I also know people who won't eat fleishig for Thursday night supper unless it's yom tov or a seudas mitzvah because they don't like having such a heavy meal so close to Shabbos.
And I am of those who thank Hashem on a regular basis for the malchus shel chesed I live in.
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Hashem_n_Farfel




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 12:59 pm
LovesHashem wrote:
I wonder what these Rabbanim would say now about Thanksgiving with the multitude of information out there now that the history story we were all told is likely based on a bunch of lies.

The native Americans were likely forced to come and killed and raped afterwards. Native Americans nowadays spend Thanksgiving mourning actually.

In any case my mother was very against it. When she became religious she becams very anti these type of things, wanting to fit in and all with society.

DH's family always does Thanksgiving and I we join. When/if we live farther away I'm not sure if take the time to make a whole meal on a Thursday. I like the food and I like the idea someone mentioned of having it on shabbos.
I learnt this too. I always wonder what kind of stuff they lied to us about in school during history
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Reality




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 1:27 pm
Hashem_n_Farfel wrote:
I learnt this too. I always wonder what kind of stuff they lied to us about in school during history


Please read real non fiction works on the subject. Not opinion pieces.

I love history. And if you really read scholarly works you realize that the version you get in school is really watered down and inaccurate.

The European settlers did a lot of harm when they arrived on this continent. Some intentional and some unintentional. What they didn't do was invite Native people to their Thanksgiving feast and rape and murder them at the gathering.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 1:59 pm
amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:
Turkey in a certain context can be assur. Just like milk can be assur after you just ate meat. And having relations can be Assur if you have your period.
As Jews we have rabbis to listen to. It’s part of our makeup. You have the choice to carve your own way and find a rabbi that works with your beliefs. But you can’t knock a rabbi on a public forum just because something doesn’t sit well with your emotions.
Im sorry, how are you comparing one eating turkey on thanksgiving with actual halachot, as in kashrut and hilchot nidda???? I was not knocking anything because of my emotions. I literally do not understand how a rabbi can assur a food?? There is no halacha connected to this
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amother




Mint
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 2:08 pm
No because I can't see making a big feast on Thursday when I'm going to make a big feast Friday night (been cooking all day today and just sat down for the first time since 10 this morning), but if invited to a celebration I would go. And if kosher turkeys were on sale I would buy one and serve it on shabbos, but in my supermarket kosher turkeys haven't been on sale in years, not even for pesach or rosh hashana. It's a convenient time for most families employed in the velt to get together (except my Messed family in Lakewood for whom all legal holidays are regular work days )without the shabbos/YT issue of having to find them places to stay within the eruv. We owe the United States a big hakaras hatov and Thanksgiving is not a religious holiday.
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amother




Honeydew
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 2:32 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Im sorry, how are you comparing one eating turkey on thanksgiving with actual halachot, as in kashrut and hilchot nidda???? I was not knocking anything because of my emotions. I literally do not understand how a rabbi can assur a food?? There is no halacha connected to this

Hamevin yavin-clearly you are new here.😉
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GLUE




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Nov 26 2020, 2:34 pm
Please do not ask for sources thins it is a few years that I read this:

The Puritan's did not celebrate X-mass or Halloween, on Thanksgiving they had trees and on the day the kids wood dress in rags begging treats from the neighbors. Thanksgiving was a New England holiday until the Civil War when Lincoln signed into law to help unite the country.

Turkeys became a thanksgiving food after the war(sometime in the 1880's not shore about what year)because a suppler had a lot of turkeys that he could not sell so he advertised that that is what reel Pilgrims ate. His advertising was very successful. Cranberry sauce did not become a thanksgiving food until 1901 when there was a glut of Cranberrys for sale slick marketing made people think that they must have Cranberrys. Yams,pumpkins ect. are all foods that come in season right by Thanksgiving. Stuffing is what people use to stretch food.

Thanksgiving is an American holiday because it is mostly marketing, how very American.
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