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How do poor people afford camp??
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amother




OP
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 2:26 pm
Looking into sending my son to camp for the first time. What was mind boggling is that the camps include forms for the lunch programs. In order to be eligible, the monthly income is peanuts.
How can these families afford these expensive ( few thousand per half!) Camps???????
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notshanarishona




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 2:27 pm
Camp is a luxury. Typically poor people don’t unless they get tzedakah
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mamma llama




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 2:31 pm
Some campers become mother's helpers for part of the day to subsidize the cost.
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amother




Amethyst
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 2:34 pm
mamma llama wrote:
Some campers become mother's helpers for part of the day to subsidize the cost.

That's how my girls went! I paid about $400
Not for everyone... it's better if going with a friend doing the same thing.
You can also apply for kids in camp scholarship (I think they pay half!)
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Amarante




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 2:39 pm
Generally poor people don't send children to camp unless it is through a scholarship program.

However, poor people can have rich parents who will pay for the camp and therefore on paper their income qualifies for lunch subsidies.

And without opening a can of worms, there are people who earn income in ways which don't show up in official tax returns and thus are eligible for benefits even though they have other sources of income.
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amother




Aqua
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 2:40 pm
notshanarishona wrote:
Camp is a luxury. Typically poor people don’t unless they get tzedakah



Is this accurate? Poor people don't send to camp? It seems either nobody is poor or everyone gets tzedaka because very few kids actually just sit home all summer.
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Amarante




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 2:44 pm
amother [ Aqua ] wrote:
Is this accurate? Poor people don't send to camp? It seems either nobody is poor or everyone gets tzedaka because very few kids actually just sit home all summer.


Are you serious or just making fun.

If you are poor you don't generally have several thousand dollars for lots of things including camp.

If camp is necessary because both parents are working and so is in lieu of childcare because there is no school, that is a different issue although a genuinely poor person would have to find some form of less expensive camp.

I think most people would agree that if you can afford several thousand dollars for camp, you are not poor by any rational definition of what being poor is.
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amother




cornflower
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 2:45 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Looking into sending my son to camp for the first time. What was mind boggling is that the camps include forms for the lunch programs. In order to be eligible, the monthly income is peanuts.
How can these families afford these expensive ( few thousand per half!) Camps???????


OP I have an answer for you and you know what it is. Nuff said.
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amother




Royalblue
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 2:49 pm
I send my boys to came not because is a luxery cuz it's a MUST! As long as they had daycamp in the city they stayed home . Once there is no program we gotta send them. But they go to same camp as the mosed we belong to .so they go and we have a balance which we pay off all year! Not a choice for us to say you can't go to camp this year . It's a continuation of the learning from all year
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ra_mom




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 2:50 pm
A lot of girls stay home and work as counselors in day camps.
Some go for one summer (one half). Some go for 2 summers (one half). Some for all 4 summers.
If people can afford it, they send. For those who can stretch themselves, they do. For those who don't have what to stretch, they don't.
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amother




Purple
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 2:53 pm
No idea. We can't afford camp prices so don't send. My oldest keeps asking so if there is a magic to it, let me know. Even a 50% scholarship wouldn't be enough.
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watergirl




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 2:59 pm
amother [ Aqua ] wrote:
Is this accurate? Poor people don't send to camp? It seems either nobody is poor or everyone gets tzedaka because very few kids actually just sit home all summer.

Its not either or, black and white. There is a whole world between going to overnight camp and sitting at home.
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Lovable




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 3:00 pm
Poor people and all people, have priorities. And according to those priorities, they decide if something is a luxury or not. And then they always find the money for whatever consider a need. Look around, and you'll see, everyone has money for what they need. For one person it may be spending on food, for another it may be nice clothes for a third it might be summer home or camp. But everyone spends somewhere else.
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amother




Rose
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 3:05 pm
I believe some people also put in on their credit card and then work on paying it off afterwards...

some people have relatives, not necessarily grandparents who pay for it.
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Amarante




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 3:06 pm
Lovable wrote:
Poor people and all people, have priorities. And according to those priorities, they decide if something is a luxury or not. And then they always find the money for whatever consider a need. Look around, and you'll see, everyone has money for what they need. For one person it may be spending on food, for another it may be nice clothes for a third it might be summer home or camp. But everyone spends somewhere else.


This is not a definition of what a poor person is. A person who is poor has barely enough money for necessities let along discretionary income for "luxuries".

A middle class person has limited funds and is not poor by any definition of what poverty is. A middle class person does make decisions on how to use their discretionary income. A middle class person has enough for necessities - and some amount of disposable. An upper middle class person has more disposable income - middle middle class less and a lower middle class person would have none or almost none.

I am not singling you out but this is a very warped idea of what poverty is when middle class income is considered poor because decisions have to be made in terms or prioritizing disposable income.


Last edited by Amarante on Thu, Nov 26 2020, 3:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
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ectomorph




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 3:07 pm
Some yeshivas require the boys to go. Often the boys whose family can't afford do jobs around the camp. Waiter,kitchen help, cleaning up...
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amother




Maroon
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 3:09 pm
Personally I grew up "poor" so to speak I went as a mothers helper. I was a second class citizen and totally hated it. I had friends who were also "poor" but their families scraped together money for them to go a few summers. I also know families that send 1 or 2 of their kids and switch each year so they all get a chance. People do what works for them.
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amother




Amethyst
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 3:17 pm
Amarante wrote:
This is not a definition of what a poor person is. A person who is poor has barely enough money for necessities let along discretionary income for "luxuries".

A middle class person has limited funds and is not poor by any definition of what poverty is. A middle class person does make decisions on how to use their discretionary income. A middle class person has enough for necessities - and some amount of disposable. An upper middle class person has more disposable income - middle middle class less and a lower middle class person would have none or almost none.

I am not singling you out but this is a very warped idea of what poverty is when middle class income is considered poor because decisions have to be made in terms or prioritizing disposable income.

I disagree. I think what Loveable wrote is 100% accurate.
Camp becomes a "necessity" because parents work and need childcare or because there's nothing to do in the city.
Healthy food (like salmon for example)becomes a "necessity " because even poor ppl need to eat healthy.
Living in a house versus a 3 br basement is a " necessity " because we need living space.
Poor ppl that cant afford food and shelter are for the most part non existant nowadays thanx to organizations like tomchei shabbos, government help and the many gemachim in our communities!
It is a question of priorities!
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Hashem_n_Farfel




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 3:18 pm
Yup we are poor but somehow my husband gives me $ to spend on clothing and shoes for me and my son only once in a while. Like every 3-6 months depending.

We get 940 combined a week and most of that is saved up for 1600$ rent once a month and phone and electricity and gas bill. I don’t know the specifics bc my husband deals with it as I get very overwhelmed with numbers. Plus groceries. Every trip to the grocery we spend around 30-45$ for shabbos and like 25-30$ weekdays.

We’re literally lucky if we have 150$ left....sometimes we pay late (a week late usually) bc we didn’t have enough money. BH we have a kind understanding landlord and his wife. Hashem should bless them with long life.

And unlike most people we do not have parents or shvers or shviggers to support us.

Money doesn’t buy happiness....
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amother




Natural
 

Post  Thu, Nov 26 2020, 3:26 pm
So there are youth core programs that were available for nyc teens in the past.
Lots of girls work in camp as a mother’s helper or as a day camp counselor so they don’t pay for camp just the trips and extras etc.
chassidish camps are cheaper not sure why cause they have great programs but they also allow payment plans and that’s how I made it work for my girls and then another year they got a job.
My niece paid her own camp from money earned.
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