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Mikva: Field trip for a class of 12 yo bnot mitzva?
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Tamiri




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 2:56 am
My friend told me that her daughter had a mother/daughter field trip to the Mikva. I have no other details, as my friend got there late and the door was locked and no one answered and I did not yet hear anything from this friend and her daughter.
Do you have an opinion on taking little girls on a field trip such as this?
I don't have daughters but I think it's.... strange at this age, to say the least. Perhaps I am not thinking correctly?
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HindaRochel




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 3:06 am
Someone told me (yeah that level of knowledge) that Sephardim sometimes take a girl to the mikvah at that age. If done right it can inspire girls to have a great feeling toward the law, as well as their cycle. I don't really have a problem with it.
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miriamnechama




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 3:10 am
I'm with you on this one.. there is no reason why girls at that age should be going to a mikva....I think it would just bringon other things that girls of that age don't need toknow aabout.

everything is in it's right time.

in a kalla teaching course we were told there's a reason for teaching Th as a kalla nd not in school. so I assume it's teh same with the mikva...
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smiley:)




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 4:00 am
I think it's really odd especially considering that at least half of them havent even gotten their periods yet. While they're parents hopefully gave them "the shmooze" about it you think they understood half of what was told?
In 12th grade our school took us towards the end of the yr to the mikva to listen to a very good lecture by the mikva lady etc. At the time I thought it even then to be a bit odd and early but I respected it bc I think they did it so the ppl who will go on to secular colleges and ways of life will have been exposed to it, and KNOW that the inyan is out there and they wanted to give them a positive exposure. I was debating if it was ok or not at age 17/18. But 12??? They are kids!
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catonmylap




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 4:44 am
If they are not frum, it makes a lot of sense. Their Jewish education ends at 12 so it's important that they know about taharat mishpacha.

If they are frum girls, I think it makes more sense a little later on--like past age 15.
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mimivan




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:06 am
I am ambivalent about it...You can't separate the issue of mikvah from the whole inyan of marital relations, which I don't think is a subject for 12 year old.
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Tamiri




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 6:00 am
This is a MO school in the United States. I would not bet that ALL the mothers there will teach their daughters. What impression will all this have on any 12 yo?
I am waiting to hear from my friend (not sure this is a subject she knows anything about :( ) what the aftermath of the visit was.
Just as an aside, in my MO school a bazillion years ago, we got "the talk" in 5th grade and one of our teachers touched upon the subject of mikva, I imagine in a couple of sentences. When my mother asked what we had been taught I told her about women going to the mikva. I asked if she goes, and she told me yes. Then I asked if she could tell me next time she's going and she said NO, it's private, and that was the end of it. At no time during my growing up years did I equate going to the mikva with what happens after, even when I figured out where my mother was going.
My point being - how much can a 12 year old grasp, even with the graphics of the mikva in front of them. We really don't want them grasping all that much anyway....
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greentiger




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 6:44 am
mimivan wrote:
..You can't separate the issue of mikvah from the whole inyan of marital relations...

Why not?
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BeershevaBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 6:49 am
greentiger wrote:
mimivan wrote:
..You can't separate the issue of mikvah from the whole inyan of marital relations...

Why not?


Probably because the only women who go on a regular basis go for TH reasons...

We had TH basics in 12th grade with atrip to one of the local Mikvaot.
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mimivan




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 6:53 am
greentiger wrote:
mimivan wrote:
..You can't separate the issue of mikvah from the whole inyan of marital relations...

Why not?


smart kids ask questions..."what does it mean she can be with her husband again."

Then again, anyone who wants to explain this to her own daughter...it's her own beeswax.
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miriamnechama




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 7:20 am
we weren't told about it... in school and in a way I'm happy about it. since my class were full of immature babies I think it could have had a detrimental effect had we have been told eg about mikva or taht a woman has to tell her husband when she gets a pd. I pretty sure my classwould have laughed it off and it wold later have been harder to deal with it. and I know andhave heard from women who their teachers mentoned something it was no good.

I personally did know about mikvas from when I was 15 my grandmother was an attendant so my grand father showed me teh mikva.. I assosiated it with men going to mikva since my foster father went every day I thought all men go. just recentky dh had to tell me that it's not the case. but as a kalla I would have loved for my grand mother to toivel me but it wasn't feasable to fly from israel to holland. and I don't think teh attendent on yerushalayim would have allowed her so taht was that. though she toiveled all her girls. and my mum had a broken leg.. a story in itself.

also my boys do know about mikva.. um cus dh goes, buti won't mention anything.... like tamiri said chikdren are curious and I don't need them coming with me. and also I make sure to go out at least once or twice a week...

also by me I'm not saying it was easy to get in to the swing of TH I always felt like why do I havce to do this.. why do I need to tell dh something private.. um too time and this is definately not for young girls.
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Ruchel




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 7:28 am
Not my cup of tea. I think it's much too young. They will just not understand, or turn it into jokes lol
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catonmylap




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 7:46 am
Tamiri wrote:
This is a MO school in the United States. I would not bet that ALL the mothers there will teach their daughters. What impression will all this have on any 12 yo?
I am waiting to hear from my friend (not sure this is a subject she knows anything about Sad ) what the aftermath of the visit was.
Just as an aside, in my MO school a bazillion years ago, we got "the talk" in 5th grade and one of our teachers touched upon the subject of mikva, I imagine in a couple of sentences. When my mother asked what we had been taught I told her about women going to the mikva. I asked if she goes, and she told me yes. Then I asked if she could tell me next time she's going and she said NO, it's private, and that was the end of it. At no time during my growing up years did I equate going to the mikva with what happens after, even when I figured out where my mother was going.
My point being - how much can a 12 year old grasp, even with the graphics of the mikva in front of them. We really don't want them grasping all that much anyway....


Actually it makes more sense to me when you put in the context of being told "the talk." If you just leave it at a woman goes after counting 7 clean days after she has her period, you don't have to make the connection to marital relations.

I don't see the need to take them so young and teach them this now if they will be continuing through a Jewish high school. But if this is it, then I think it is a very good idea to introduce them to the concept.
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cassandra




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 8:20 am
catonmylap wrote:

Actually it makes more sense to me when you put in the context of being told "the talk." If you just leave it at a woman goes after counting 7 clean days after she has her period, you don't have to make the connection to marital relations.


I disagree, because then how do you answer why married women go, and not unmarried women? If it is davka given in the context of "the talk", won't the girls assume they are being told this because it applies to them, and if it doesn't, why not?

I personally think it is too young. I think I had some sense of the whole thing when I was that age, but it was far removed and I think that's good. Girls going through puberty are dealing with so many changes in reality, why burden them with something that really is irrelevant? I don't think it should be kept from them if they ask, but as a matter of institutional policy I don't think it's wise.
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greentiger




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 8:29 am
mimivan wrote:
greentiger wrote:
mimivan wrote:
..You can't separate the issue of mikvah from the whole inyan of marital relations...

Why not?


smart kids ask questions..."what does it mean she can be with her husband again."

Then again, anyone who wants to explain this to her own daughter...it's her own beeswax.

How about "touch her husband" or "purifing herself for her husband once a month". I happen to agree with cassandra on this and feel there is absoloutly no need to burden young girls with irrenlevant info, I just don't think mikvah and s-x are tied together.
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Tamiri




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 8:33 am
Oops, I think I have to clarify: "The Talk" in this context was... a woman's monthly cycle.... I don't think they mentioned s8x!!! LOL
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louche




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 9:33 am
cassandra wrote:
I disagree, because then how do you answer why married women go, and not unmarried women? If it is davka given in the context of "the talk", won't the girls assume they are being told this because it applies to them, and if it doesn't, why not?

I personally think it is too young.


Thumbs Up

Way too young. It would be much more appropriate for HS juniors or seniors. They're familiar with the biology and of an age that they could be getting married, even if they don't intend to for several years.
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Crayon210




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 9:40 am
cassandra wrote:
Girls going through puberty are dealing with so many changes in reality, why burden them with something that really is irrelevant?


And something that's frightening for no reason. For a twelve-year-old to think about a woman 'seeing her naked' while she goes into mikvah (even though she puts the robe up, yeah yeah) is downright scary. It's something most women outgrow by the time they're kallahs or shortly thereafter, but I think that's one of the most uncomfortable aspects of mikvah for an adolescent!
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cassandra




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 9:41 am
Agreed, Crayon. Not very good for developing body image either.
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amother




 

Post  Thu, Feb 28 2008, 10:27 am
just a thought about mikvah being assosiated with s-x

my mother was a mikvah lady my whole life and I always knew that women went to the mikvah as a special mitzvah. we would often go with her to the mikvah during the day if something needed to be done and if we had to toivel kelim. she never hid it from us. but all I knew is that women go once a month and its a special mitzvah. even till I was much older I had no idea that it had anything to do with one's cycle or that it had to do with one's husband. I knew that men go often and women go once a month. so I definitely think that it can be separated.

like one of the above posters said if these girls education is ending at 12 then its good to bring them to the mikvah and tell them that a women has a special mitvzah to go to the mikvah and she can bring holiness to her whole family by going.

I'm so happy that going to the mikvah was normal for me because when I got married and I wasn't nervous about going.
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