Source for babies smiling in their sleep?

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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions

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bigsis144

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 12:50 pm

gamanit wrote:

We learned that Adam was created as both male and female. He didn't originally need a partner to have children. When Hashem created Chava, He made her out of all the female parts and that extra bone (which no longer exists). So basically created male and female then female created from the male.

As far as I know the story of "Lilith" isn't of Jewish origin. I first encountered it in the Narnia books which are quite xtian. Either way this idea that a baby smiling means anything other than that the baby is happy makes no sense to me. To me it always looked like my baby was dreaming about eating while smiling.

I’ve also heard the Siamese-twins/hermaphrodite explanation for “male and female He created them.”

But I’m not gonna argue with Bereishis Rabbah for giving an alternate story. I did give a specific source.

So it’s not a concept totally divorced from Jewish tradition, but much of modern Lilith-lore is more influenced by non-Jewish sources, I would say.

At this point, she is practically a Xtian-flavored public-domain character, representing the “bad girl”. There’s a Lilith in the long-running tv series Supernatural. I haven’t seen Lucifer, but if she wasn’t at least referenced, I’d be shocked. If you want a name for your succubus or female vampire, Lilith is a name with symbolism and weight to it.

number

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 12:53 pm

gamanit wrote:

As far as I know the story of "Lilith" isn't of Jewish origin. I first encountered it in the Narnia books which are quite xtian.

Same, all I know is what I got out of narnia. I know there are midrashim discussing it but I thought none of them were literal. I really can’t fathom this being taught in seminaries

bigsis144

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 1:05 pm

Yeah, really do wonder in what context @hodeez was formally taught about this. Like I said, it’s not like the concept of Lilith is totally new or from non-Jewish sources, so maybe they just learned about the two-Eves explanation in Bereishis Rabbah when going through parshas Bereishis passuk by passuk, and then class conversation meandered to people sharing what they’d heard about Lilith in folklore etc.

Because it’s all just way too superstitious and related to non-Jewish influences to be a source of actual formally taught Halacha/minhag, at least in my experience...

FranticFrummie

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 1:14 pm

bigsis144 wrote:

That's the way I was taught, too. I learned that they were connected back to back, so they didn't see each other's faces. That's why Adam thought he was alone. Hashem divided them so that they could relate to each other face to face (and why "missionary" is the preferred position for zex.)

As a side note, you should watch Lucifer. Lilith and Eve are both in it, as well as Samael and several other angels and demons. It's extremely well researched and written, with enough plot twists to keep you entertained.

amother

Emerald

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 2:50 pm

WitchKitty wrote:

You're kidding me. This is only for men???
I asked my rav about sleeping alone and he said that I have to sleep with a light on. I slept in light for years AND NOW YOU'RE TELLING ME IT'S ONLY FOR MEN.

If you go to mikva when your husband is away, you need to sleep with a knife under your pillow or with an article of his clothing.

ExtraCredit

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 2:52 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

If you go to mikva when your husband is away, you need to sleep with a knife under your pillow or with an article of his clothing.

Oh, at least Lilith keeps TH.

amother

Blue

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 2:57 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

If you go to mikva when your husband is away, you need to sleep with a knife under your pillow or with an article of his clothing.

That's a segula brought in the Sefer Tahara K'halacha, but not everyone holds that way.

amother

Emerald

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 2:57 pm

ExtraCredit wrote:

Oh, at least Lilith keeps TH.

Now that's a very respectful way to talk about a widespread kabbala-based minhag that most chassisishe kallos were taught. Mad

WitchKitty

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 3:18 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

If you go to mikva when your husband is away, you need to sleep with a knife under your pillow or with an article of his clothing.

I am overtired, so please....
Does someone want to start a spinoff with a poll:
When you go to the mikva when your dh isn't home, do you prefer the knife or his sock?

ExtraCredit

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 3:33 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

Now that's a very respectful way to talk about a widespread kabbala-based minhag that most chassisishe kallos were taught. Mad

No offense, I was taught that too. I’m just going along with the *spirit* of this thread.

MiriFr

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 3:51 pm

gamanit wrote:

To me it always looked like my baby was dreaming about eating while smiling.

(Babies don’t dream)

WitchKitty

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 3:56 pm

MiriFr wrote:

(Babies don’t dream)

They don't?
So why do they smile or laugh in their sleep?

ExtraCredit

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 3:57 pm

WitchKitty wrote:

They don't?
So why do they smile or laugh in their sleep?

Check the first page of this thread. I definitely read that somewhere and it makes sense. Those are not real smiles.

MiriFr

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 3:59 pm

WitchKitty wrote:

They don't?
So why do they smile or laugh in their sleep?

Babies start dreaming once they develop an imagination, so at around age 2.
They smile because it’s an uncontrollable reflex. And/or gas. And/or demons lololololololololol

amother

Emerald

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 4:02 pm

WitchKitty wrote:

I am overtired, so please....
Does someone want to start a spinoff with a poll:
When you go to the mikva when your dh isn't home, do you prefer the knife or his sock?

I've never had to do it, but I would vote for his dirty undershirt. The smell is calming..

ExtraCredit

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 4:04 pm

WitchKitty wrote:

I am overtired, so please....
Does someone want to start a spinoff with a poll:
When you go to the mikva when your dh isn't home, do you prefer the knife or his sock?

Definitely the knife. Gotta be well armed just in case.

amother

Emerald

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 4:06 pm

MiriFr wrote:

Babies start dreaming once they develop an imagination, so at around age 2.
They smile because it’s an uncontrollable reflex. And/or gas. And/or demons lololololololololol

You've never heard a 1yo laugh in their sleep? Or had a 9mo suddenly start crying in their sleep? How about a 1.5yo say "nooo" in their sleep? Or a 3mo suddenly smile and start nursing the air?

Of course babies dream. The memories of the day kind of regurgitate in their brains, the same way they do in ours. They just can't express it because they are preverbal.

banana123

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 4:06 pm

WitchKitty wrote:

They don't?
So why do they smile or laugh in their sleep?

The smiles are usually gas smiles.

MiriFr

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 4:07 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

Of course I have! It’s the cutest thing ever. Still a reflex.
Dreams are in the imagination department, not the memory department. But you’re right, babies do develop a memory from a very young age.

Shiraz

Tue, Dec 01 2020, 4:24 pm

Isn’t that why we put a Shir Hamalos card next to the baby to protect him/her?

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