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Lockdown tragedy (suicide mentioned)
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amother




Apricot
 

Post Thu, Dec 03 2020, 6:07 pm
amother [ Cyan ] wrote:
I think people who struggle with suicidal thoughts come from all walks of life and all types of experiences. Imamother purple is sharing her experience, which may be different from yours or someone else with this mental health concern. That doesn’t mean that only hers or only yours is valid.
She repeatedly uses the word “we” to refer to those who struggle. To me that means she’s trying to talk for me.
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 03 2020, 6:09 pm
amother [ Cyan ] wrote:
It is definitely psychologically debilitating for many people. Never said it wasn’t.


Edited and added a second paragraph in my post above

(I've been editing a lot of my posts on this thread- forgive me- I post and then think of more to write)

There is little evidence that in-person learning contributes to crowded hospitals. Since the data leans in that direction, why are students in some districts who thrive on in-person learning being cut off from it?
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amother




Cyan
 

Post Thu, Dec 03 2020, 6:15 pm
Gold, this is what I was saying “nope” to.

Quote:
If YOU wear masks and YOU social distance, how is a group of teens who oppose SD and make different choices, going to affect you? They're young, and therefore low risk, so they are not going to be flooding hospitals as a group.
A child choosing to hang out with friends won't actually impact anyone outside his friend group & their contacts who DON'T social distance and DON'T wear masks.
Just common sense.


Kid gets covid and comes home. Kid isn’t wearing a mask at home with covid and infects parents. Parents get sick and go to doctor/hospital. This is one of many ways this virus could be spread from a young kid to someone more susceptible to severe disease. How is that not common sense?
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amother




Cyan
 

Post Thu, Dec 03 2020, 6:20 pm
Quote:
There is little evidence that in-person learning contributes to crowded hospitals. Since the data leans in that direction, why are students in some districts who thrive on in-person learning being cut off from it?

I’m not arguing one way or another for in person schools. As a working parent, it’s been very challenging to have my kids home from school. As a medical professional, I see that closures are sometimes necessary. I was responding to the concept that some groups of people can go out and do whatever they want - not wear masks, no social distancing- and it won’t affect everyone else. This is the exact opposite of what we’ve seen in the spread of this disease. The few people that are going out and being reckless are the same ones who are driving this off the cliff and prolonging everyone’s suffering.
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 03 2020, 6:28 pm
amother [ Cyan ] wrote:
Gold, this is what I was saying “nope” to.

Quote:
If YOU wear masks and YOU social distance, how is a group of teens who oppose SD and make different choices, going to affect you? They're young, and therefore low risk, so they are not going to be flooding hospitals as a group.
A child choosing to hang out with friends won't actually impact anyone outside his friend group & their contacts who DON'T social distance and DON'T wear masks.
Just common sense.


Kid gets covid and comes home. Kid isn’t wearing a mask at home with covid and infects parents. Parents get sick and go to doctor/hospital. This is one of many ways this virus could be spread from a young kid to someone more susceptible to severe disease. How is that not common sense?


OK- so with regards to younger children, under age 10 or so- not sure exactly- I will look it up again- transmission rates are actually very low. The odds of a young child passing the virus to an adult is low.

As for older children and teens, I agree- this age range is definitely a big link in the chain of covid transmission. The data clearly demonstrates this.

My point in the post you linked was perhaps unclear. I will attempt to rephrase. I did not suggest that social distancing and masking should be thrown to the wayside. I simply suggested that a teen locked down at home who is suffering from the realities of distance learning has FEWER options available to him to protect himself from the potential risks of this setup than Amother Purple has to protect herself from the potential risks of covid. Amother Purple can protect herself by wearing a mask (preferably N95), social distancing, etc. Bumping past someone in the supermarket is extremely unlikely to give her covid.

What should the struggling & suffering teen do?

I didn't directly refer to the risks to healthcare workers in my post, but rather to hospital capacity- the risk to healthcare workers is a separate and certainly a relevant issue, hopefully mitigated by access to excellent PPE. Again, I DO support social distancing and masking. But Amother Purple has more options available to her to protect herself than a locked down teen does. Amother Purple can simply employ covid safety measures to protect herself and her family. Whether or not a group of teens get together is unlikely to directly affect her unless she herself is not taking appropriate safety measures. So there is some element of personal responsibility and a sense of control available to her.

Which safety measures have been put out by whom to help teens navigate the isolation of distance learning?
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amother




Cyan
 

Post Thu, Dec 03 2020, 6:51 pm
gold21 wrote:

Which safety measures have been put out by whom to help teens navigate the isolation of distance learning?


Some resources here. State and local governments may be doing more. https://www.cdc.gov/coronaviru......html
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 03 2020, 7:05 pm
amother [ Cyan ] wrote:
Some resources here. State and local governments may be doing more. https://www.cdc.gov/coronaviru......html


OK. I'd like to hear more noise on this topic. We regularly hear about how important it is to protect our physical health. A little more time & attention should be devoted to how to protect our mental health.

Also, schools should be open for in-person learning. That's one great way to mitigate mental health risks of the pandemic without much impact on covid spread.
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Dec 03 2020, 7:29 pm
amother [ Apricot ] wrote:
She repeatedly uses the word “we” to refer to those who struggle. To me that means she’s trying to talk for me.


I noticed that as well. I too struggle with depression, I have been suicidal in the past, and yes, I was suicidal during the lockdown in the spring. And you know what? If chv another lockdown happens, and chv I follow through, I would HOPE to be made into a symbol of why lockdowns are wrong and immoral. So yeah, she doesn't speak for me either. And as for how people have treated me and my mental health issues before the pandemic? Actually, I had a good deal of support and found it easy to ignore people who were unsupportive. But now, some of the people who I used to think were enlightened about mental illness have turned out to be the worst backstabbers now. Now they mock me and put me down for daring to struggle when clearly corona is the only terrible thing in life right now Mad I'd rather they didn't care so much under normal circumstances than the true colors I'm seeing now.
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amother




Apricot
 

Post Thu, Dec 03 2020, 9:24 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
And as for how people have treated me and my mental health issues before the pandemic? Actually, I had a good deal of support and found it easy to ignore people who were unsupportive. But now, some of the people who I used to think were enlightened about mental illness have turned out to be the worst backstabbers now. Now they mock me and put me down for daring to struggle when clearly corona is the only terrible thing in life right now Mad
100% this. I have no clue what this particular poster's situation is and why she'd prefer to be in lockdown. I think our situations are way more typical than this woman's, and while I feel sorry for her, in my opinion she has no business trying to speak for the rest of us.
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ValleyMom




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Dec 04 2020, 11:57 am
I am a kindergarten teacher and I can say first hand that distance learning is a total disaster for any children- especially young ones.

Children need to feel like they are valued.
They NEED to feel like they are part of a classroom community.

In my classroom I call US a SCHOOL FAMILY.
I ask the children to take care of each other and be kind to each other.

If someone falls and is crying help them up and ask if they need some help to go to the nurse.
If someone drops a box of lego or crayons run over and start helping to clean the mess.

During Covid Lockdown kids sent me videos of them reading or sent photos of completed math work and do you know what I did???

I sent VIDEO or VOICE NOTES of myself telling them how lucky I am to be their teacher. "I am so proud of you". "I noticed your penmanship is no neat and clear. "I noticed your drawings are so bright and colorful!"

Kids NEED to see you and HEAR you on a personal level.

IF you are a teacher and reading this... take the time to reach out INDIVIDUALLY to EVERY SINGLE STUDENT.

Every child needs to hear from you.

Last year I had 48 kindergartners (two classes) and I worked so hard to connect with each and every one of them.

Human connection helped us get through the mandated lockdown.

I missed those daily hugs from the kids.
You know what I got instead?
A DRIVE BY PARADE of families in decorated mini vans honking and waving!

I cried like a baby.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Dec 04 2020, 12:47 pm
One set of grandchildren are on Zoom school until after Chanukah due to cases in the frum community. This community has been exceedingly careful because the frum and non frum live side by side and the frum community cannot afford to alienate people. Of course it's stressful and the kids miss their friends and routines.
With hospitals under strain, maybe the government should train hundreds or thousands of people to be EMTs and those can function as nurses in special Covid clinics. Of course these patients would not receive expert care but how else can we have our cake and eat it too.
Biden is calling for coast to coast masking and for all non essential travel to stop and I say "good luck buddy" because nobody is going to listen and they figure that if anything happens, Humpty Dumpty can be put back together again.
Some hospital workers have gone on strike or have quit and Cuomo wants to rehire retired doctors and nurses, as if these people are in the lowest risk category. I wish that I had a dime for every time someone posted here that Covid didn't kill people, hospitals did so maybe everyone should stay home if they catch Covid.
Yes, schools should have been the priority but everyone else also wants to live a normal life and schools are the step-child because when a community is engulfed in sickness, it's impossible to be normal. Eventually teachers catch it too.
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amother




Seagreen
 

Post Tue, Dec 08 2020, 9:16 am
allthingsblue wrote:
And advocates of no masks, no social distancing have blood on their hands for all the covid deaths that could have been prevented.

If only it was so simple. Most victims would've gotten infected despite these flimsy masks and there's no clarity on the boundaries of sd either. Most preventable fatalities actually occurred because of neglect.
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amother




Seagreen
 

Post Tue, Dec 08 2020, 9:26 am
southernbubby wrote:
One set of grandchildren are on Zoom school until after Chanukah due to cases in the frum community. This community has been exceedingly careful because the frum and non frum live side by side and the frum community cannot afford to alienate people. Of course it's stressful and the kids miss their friends and routines.
With hospitals under strain, maybe the government should train hundreds or thousands of people to be EMTs and those can function as nurses in special Covid clinics. Of course these patients would not receive expert care but how else can we have our cake and eat it too.
Biden is calling for coast to coast masking and for all non essential travel to stop and I say "good luck buddy" because nobody is going to listen and they figure that if anything happens, Humpty Dumpty can be put back together again.
Some hospital workers have gone on strike or have quit and Cuomo wants to rehire retired doctors and nurses, as if these people are in the lowest risk category. I wish that I had a dime for every time someone posted here that Covid didn't kill people, hospitals did so maybe everyone should stay home if they catch Covid.
Yes, schools should have been the priority but everyone else also wants to live a normal life and schools are the step-child because when a community is engulfed in sickness, it's impossible to be normal. Eventually teachers catch it too.

I love the idea of training more people to be emt but these temporary clinics can run into problems. I recall last winter there were frum jews who tried to set up a makeshift hospital in empty yeshiva buildings iirc cuomo had a cow (that of course doesn't show it was a bad idea, maybe the contrary...). The biggest issue I heard across the board from patients victim's family members and yes even local doctors is the neglect that is the natural outcome of not allowing non medical personnel to be with the patient. I would guess this policy has killed 100x more lives than it saved. I think now would be the time to strengthen our local hatzala so that they can support us in the comfort of our own homes which with all it's shortcomings is still a better option than going to a hospital or clinic.
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Dec 08 2020, 11:39 pm
southernbubby wrote:
One set of grandchildren are on Zoom school until after Chanukah due to cases in the frum community. This community has been exceedingly careful because the frum and non frum live side by side and the frum community cannot afford to alienate people. Of course it's stressful and the kids miss their friends and routines.
With hospitals under strain, maybe the government should train hundreds or thousands of people to be EMTs and those can function as nurses in special Covid clinics. Of course these patients would not receive expert care but how else can we have our cake and eat it too.
Biden is calling for coast to coast masking and for all non essential travel to stop and I say "good luck buddy" because nobody is going to listen and they figure that if anything happens, Humpty Dumpty can be put back together again.
Some hospital workers have gone on strike or have quit and Cuomo wants to rehire retired doctors and nurses, as if these people are in the lowest risk category. I wish that I had a dime for every time someone posted here that Covid didn't kill people, hospitals did so maybe everyone should stay home if they catch Covid.
Yes, schools should have been the priority but everyone else also wants to live a normal life and schools are the step-child because when a community is engulfed in sickness, it's impossible to be normal. Eventually teachers catch it too.


Transmission rates in schools tend to remain very low, even when community spread is high.
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Dec 08 2020, 11:42 pm
16 year old Spencer Smith passed away from suicide today. He wrote his parents a note prior to taking his life, blaming isolation and feeling adrift from his friend group for his actions.
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Dec 08 2020, 11:47 pm
Parents, and all humans, should follow their instinct about what's right and wrong for themselves and their families.

Worrying about social norms and "acceptable social behavior" is a very deceptive trap to fall into. What's p.c. today is old-hat tomorrow. Common sense never goes out of style.

History offers the benefit of a long term, big picture, view of things and is often critical of choices made at different time periods. We are living though history- as every time period is eventually historical, and will eventually be deconstructed and "reviewed" by historians.

Trust your gut and don't be swayed by society, a most fallible marker of what's right & wrong.

For children and teens, in-person learning is essential, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I'm no pyschic, but mark my words- history will prove me right.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Dec 09 2020, 10:25 am
OP, hugs! This is so hard on so many planes.
I haven't read the whole thread but enough of the first page and last to - I think - get you. Corona has really done a number on so many people, and society at hard.
Many, many schools are staying open. But colleges are going remote due to the impossibility of keeping to safe standards, thanks to so much immature and reckless behavior. High schools are following suit as h.s. students are young adults. The people making these decisions are between a rock and a hard place.
For sure, the kids need a lot more attention and outlets and meaningful ways to connect, even if remotely. This might be where the focus should be.
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