“YOU AND YOUR PRAYER BOOK CAN GET OFF!”

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Advanced Search Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Vacation and Traveling

Previous 1 2 3 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother

Sapphire

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 6:21 pm

oh please tweak it

number

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 6:21 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

An adult's mask shouldn't be 'falling to the floor' on an airplane (if that's what was admitted on the tape. I did not listen to it).

that’s not what happened though, maybe scroll back a few pages because it was clarified that she was wearing a mask the entire time

number

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 6:22 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

If you were not responsible enough to bring spare masks in your bag, then yeah, you have no choice but to wear the mask that fell on the floor till they bring a replacement. You can't sit their maskless for several minutes until a flight attendant has time to attend to you.

except for the minor detail that the woman was wearing a mask the entire time

amother

Sapphire

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 6:23 pm

unbelievable that such an anti semitic incident gets the telephone game treatment here

amother

Peach

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 6:23 pm

oodlesofnoodles wrote:

Hi I watched the video and she clearly says her mask fell on the floor. To Delta, that means non compliance.

I was basing my responses on this.
If she never said her mask fell on the floor, then my responses are irrelevant.

number

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 6:24 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

This. Most people I know carry several, in case one tears, or in case you start sweating in your mask.

Definitely I can't imagine flying with only one.

we don’t know how many masks she was flying with because she was wearing one the entire time and there was no reason for her to pull more out, but quite possibly she had a whole case tucked into her handbag

number

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 6:24 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

I was basing my responses on this.
If she never said her mask fell on the floor, then my responses are irrelevant.

She did not say her mask fell on the floor. Smile

amother

Sapphire

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 6:29 pm

thank you number

amother

Peach

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 6:30 pm

crust wrote:

At the 3.19 mark she said I was very compliant it just fell off when I talked and I wasn't given a chance to ask for another one.

She admitted it fell off. (Again, the airline was 1000% wrong in what they did, their response was overblown, offensive and unfair. But that doesn't mean this woman was as 'compliant' as she could have been.)

number

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 6:32 pm

Fox wrote:

I can clarify some of the details in this story -- the unidentified woman is one of my daughters.

The flight attendant, Erica Green, had walked back and forth several times without commenting on her mask. However, when my daughter took out her siddur to say Tefillas HaDerech was when the problem started. Ms. Green was very aggressive and told her that her mask wasn't adequately covering her nose.

At first, my daughter thought Ms. Green was complaining that it had slipped, so she tried to adjust it. Ms. Green said that was inadequate and brought another flight attendant over. At that point, my daughter thought maybe they didn't like the mask -- it was one of those blue, standard-issue ones -- so she offered to wear a different mask if they provided one. The initial conversation was not videoed; my daughter didn't realize that this was going to escalate.

No dice.

The pilots were told that a non-compliant passenger was refusing to wear a mask, and they turned the plane around. After she was escorted off the plane, she spoke with the pilots, and they seemed to have no idea what had happened -- they were surprised to see her in a mask.

But here's the crazy part: the gate personnel quickly rebooked her on a flight leaving to LGA 30 minutes later and escorted her to the gate to make sure the doors didn't close before she got there. If she'd truly refused to wear a mask, why would they have been so willing to rebook her without the slightest hesitation or without checking to make sure she would agree to wear a mask?

She's filed an official complaint with Delta, asking for a refund of her ticket price (about $250) and an apology. In addition to what has been reported, Ms. Green made some comments regarding the frum men who tried to intervene, including "You don't get to have your way all the time."

Fortunately, nothing really bad happened, but it was annoying and embarrassing.

On the plus side, she was wearing a fabulous handbag. There's no excuse for getting thrown off a plane with a tacky handbag!

number

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 6:34 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

read fox’s clarification, if there’s still any confusion fox might be willing to help out

amother

Peach

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 6:35 pm

number wrote:

read fox’s clarification, if there’s still any confusion fox might be willing to help out

Listen to the video. The woman herself says at 3.19 seconds that the mask fell down.

amother

Saddlebrown

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 6:41 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

Listen to the video. The woman herself says at 3.19 seconds that the mask fell down.

Not off her face unto the floor
As in fell down her nose. Masks tend to do that
They slip off and the nose is uncovered. The mouth is still covered
Stop being miss hoity toity.

number

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 6:43 pm

amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote:

Not off her face unto the floor
As in fell down her nose. Masks tend to do that
They slip off and the nose is uncovered.
Stop being miss hoity toity

fox clarified that her daughter didn’t think it slipped off her nose but because the woman was upset she apologized in case the woman felt the mask wasn’t covering the nose enough ...

amother

Sapphire

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 6:44 pm

Maybe it is just too frightening for some people to accept that anti semitism exists and that such a thing could happen to any of us

amother

Blush

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 6:48 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

Listen to the video. The woman herself says at 3.19 seconds that the mask fell down.

Passanger said mask fell off. OK.
You have to apologize, put it back on, sit straight up so all crew passing by KNOW you are not a problem passanger. Daven with your face up.

BUT
When you video tape, ask on recording whats the crew full names so you can call airline to complain (all on video), you start threats + go back to sidur and face down, so they dont know what you are hiding - compliance or non compliance - you lost your case.

They wont be nice anymore.

Review with your kids how to get safely from point one to point two with no issues.

If you fight for justice, you may end up with public humilation. It is not justified, but this is how it may work, Learn and teach your children how to stay away from trouble.

face up = "vehisem nekiim". do what is clearly and publicly viewed as clean and compliant.

All and all, it was a chillul hashem, where news report Jewish traveler removed and plane turned back due to non compliance + prayer book.

It doesnt matter if its fully accurate or not. its just not pretty, and not pleasant.

So how will you avoid it?

clearly.

number

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 6:50 pm

amother [ Blush ] wrote:

When you video tape, ask on recording whats the crew full names so you can call airline to complain (all on video), you start threats + go back to sidur and face down, so they dont know what you are hiding - compliance or non compliance - you lost your case.

not what happened in this universe, maybe in a different one though, and if the story had happened the way you say it did then you would have a valid point

Mama Bear

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 8:16 pm

Fox wrote:

Honestly, I suspect we've all done enough at this point. I truly appreciate everyone's concern over the incident.

As I said upthread, I think it's important to make the point without going overboard. There are plenty of people in the world who suffer real trauma on a daily basis -- this was just an unpleasant, inconvenient, and embarrassing situation.

My daughter and I have discussed it at length, as you can imagine, going over various scenarios to determine if she was accidentally guilty of somehow escalating the situation.

We've concluded that the initial flight attendant -- who is not in any of the videos -- either had some stereotypes about religious Jews and mask compliance; was having a really awful day; or somehow my daughter inadvertantly got on her last nerve.

Funnily enough, this particular daughter is a BCBA, so her focus is always about correcting non-adaptive behaviors or whatever the loshen is. After the initial shock wore off, she's more perplexed that airlines in general and Delta in particular seem to use the singularly most ineffective methods to achieve mask compliance.

Of course, this particular daughter (Clementine, for those who recall my kits) can walk down Ocean Parkway and have people tossing job offers at her while the rest of us go begging. Knowing her, she'll talk to Delta and somehow end up with a paying gig out of the whole thing. She'll then tell me, in that way that young adults do, "See, Ma! It turned out for the best! Gam zu l'tovah!"

And, like all mothers, I'll be torn between nachas and rolling my eyes. Very Happy

I'm extremely amazed taht out of all people in the universe who can be this lady (that I read about on YWN) it's fox's daughter! small world! wow!
Also: Fox, BCBA's are the most amazing people on the planet. And knowing quite a bit about behavior therapy, I'm also consistently puzzled how the rest of the world just doesnt get it, and they don't understand that you won't get to peoples' hearts and to compliance by being threatening and confrontational. and that calm, kind words accomplish much more. It's astounding.
((HUGS)) to your daughter.

amother

Ruby

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 8:28 pm

Fox, you sound like you have such an amazing daughter! she sounds so mature and well brought up!! and I am amazed at how calm you sound as well!
To all those women who are blaming and pointing fingers, while we are hearing the story from the victim's own mother.....um, didn't your mothers ever teach you that if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything???
If this would happen to your OWN SISTER, would you be posting self-righteously about always carrying extra masks in your bag yada yada yada and some people consider mask wearing optional yada yada yada...
I don't think so...
well, guess what? this young lady happens to be your sister.

emma07

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 8:34 pm

Wow just wow... I now truly believe want my friend told me who was on that flight!

Fox wrote:

Page 8 of 12

Previous 1 2 3 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next