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Normal for playgroup morah not to allow checking out group?
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amother




Blonde
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 8:22 am
Ema of 4 wrote:
Except that it really CAN disrupt the flow. We are not talking about a classroom of older kids, where the teacher can just continue lecturing. In a playgroup, every person who comes in is noticed by the little people. One person coming in might not be a huge issue, but what if it’s multiple people in a day? That can really disrupt the flow, and the kids’ attention and Morah’s attention.


I've done it and it hasn't disrupted anything. And why are multiple people going in one day? The morah needs to schedule it at a time of day that is not disruptive like snack time, and each person on a different day.
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amother




Emerald
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 8:31 am
amother [ Puce ] wrote:
I'm also a morah (not same as Op's) and that's also my policy!
When I'm a morah, my job is to take care of the kids in my care not talk to mothers who are possibly interested in sending the following year!
(Eta: I do not have an assistant!)


I know this is off topic, but watching kids without another adult around is really not a good idea. If chas veshalom you were somehow incapacitated, what would happen? What if you needed to evacuate all the children in an emergency? Also, do you not go to the bathroom ever during hours? Obviously, parents are sometimes on their own with kids, but in a professional situation, I would be very uncomfortable with that.
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Ema of 4




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 8:45 am
amother [ Blonde ] wrote:
I've done it and it hasn't disrupted anything. And why are multiple people going in one day? The morah needs to schedule it at a time of day that is not disruptive like snack time, and each person on a different day.

How do you know what it did to the kids’ routine? How do you know what happened after you left? I’ve worked in numerous playgroups, and I can tell you that it can be EXTREMELY disruptive, even if you don’t see it in the few minutes that you are there.
You’re right, multiple people shouldn’t be coming, but what if that’s what everyone’s schedules allow for? Even coming at snack time can be disruptive, because some children might be distracted and not eat enough, and that will affect them for the rest of the day.
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amother




Tangerine
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 9:33 am
It can be very disruptive especially for this age group. Some children see a parent there and they think it’s time to go home and start asking for their mommy. It can be very distracting for the routine to have parents walking in and out and observing. There are lots of other ways to find out about the group. Looking at the room after hours, you can get a sense of whether or not it seems warm and safe. There are usually pictures in the room the morah can show you. You can ask parents about it. Check if the playgroup is legal and what their policies are. Legal playgroups are usually highly audited and the moros are professional and trained. Even if there was something to hide , I’m sure the teachers wouldn’t do that thing while a parent was there watching anyway?
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amother




Mistyrose
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 10:11 am
I was once looking for a babysitter and heard about one who sounded great. I spoke to her on the phone and was very impressed. I called lots and lots of references (and asked specific questions) and got gushing reports - they all loved her. I asked if I could come visit in middle of the day, but she didn't let that because it disturbs. Instead, I came after hours to see the space and talk to her in person. Everything looked great, so I decided to send there, and she was the best babysitter I ever sent to. I sent all my babies to her after that.
My point is- it could be a red flag, but it could not be. So don't discount it and do your research well, but also don't write it off entirely.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 10:15 am
amother [ Emerald ] wrote:
I know this is off topic, but watching kids without another adult around is really not a good idea. If chas veshalom you were somehow incapacitated, what would happen? What if you needed to evacuate all the children in an emergency? Also, do you not go to the bathroom ever during hours? Obviously, parents are sometimes on their own with kids, but in a professional situation, I would be very uncomfortable with that.


I had a blanket rule for myself when sending my kids to playgroup: I didn't send to Morahs who don't have an assistant. And the assistant has to be a non-relative of the Morah.

(this is something I discussed many times with Ziva Kriger A"H, a dear friend of mine whom I still miss very much.....it was a basic safety measure I set for myself.)

ETA - with babysitters it was different, because few babysitters have assistants. It was only practical once they got to playgroup age.

Rebetzin Kotler gave me wonderful advice when I sent my oldest to the babysitter for the first time. She said, every so often, pop in unannounced. You got out of work early, or you had an appointment - just show up to pick your child up early. You will see what's going on.
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sky




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 10:54 am
Chayalle wrote:
I had a blanket rule for myself when sending my kids to playgroup: I didn't send to Morahs who don't have an assistant. And the assistant has to be a non-relative of the Morah.

(this is something I discussed many times with Ziva Kriger A"H, a dear friend of mine whom I still miss very much.....it was a basic safety measure I set for myself.)

ETA - with babysitters it was different, because few babysitters have assistants. It was only practical once they got to playgroup age.

Rebetzin Kotler gave me wonderful advice when I sent my oldest to the babysitter for the first time. She said, every so often, pop in unannounced. You got out of work early, or you had an appointment - just show up to pick your child up early. You will see what's going on.


I hear what you are saying

My daughters go to a Morah who doesn’t take an assistant.
She explained to me the years she hired an assistant she found when she had something to talk about she spoke to the assistant. When there is no assistant she only speaks to the girls and is 100% focused only on them.
I once heard another girl tell her mother in the group - last year when the Morah had a secret she told it to the other morah. This year when the Morah has a secret she tells it to us!!


(She is also the type that won’t do anything else during the group. She hires someone to come in for a short time so she can eat lunch when doing extended hours. )

Honestly My 2 yr old is Very scared of strangers and it would mess his day up a lot if someone came in he didn’t know


Last edited by sky on Mon, Dec 07 2020, 10:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 10:55 am
Chayalle wrote:
I had a blanket rule for myself when sending my kids to playgroup: I didn't send to Morahs who don't have an assistant. And the assistant has to be a non-relative of the Morah.

(this is something I discussed many times with Ziva Kriger A"H, a dear friend of mine whom I still miss very much.....it was a basic safety measure I set for myself.)

ETA - with babysitters it was different, because few babysitters have assistants. It was only practical once they got to playgroup age.

Rebetzin Kotler gave me wonderful advice when I sent my oldest to the babysitter for the first time. She said, every so often, pop in unannounced. You got out of work early, or you had an appointment - just show up to pick your child up early. You will see what's going on.


Just curious - why does the assistant have to be a non relative of the morah?
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 10:58 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Just curious - why does the assistant have to be a non relative of the morah?


Less likely to collude in or condone inappropriate or dangerous behaviors.
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amother




Turquoise
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 11:03 am
LovesHashem wrote:
Everyone is on there best behavior when being watched. It's possible and unlikely that the ganenet would be so oblivious to bad or dysfunctional behavior that she would not censor herself.

Most of the people who are bad ganenets are being bad when no one can see. Trust me I have expirience.


Yes, this! There are playgroup Morahs who are really not the greatest behind the parent's backs, but are all sugar and spice and amazing as soon as they know they are being abused. IMO, the worst Morahs are the MOST eager to be observed, because they know the best how to put up a good show!

Likely this Morah is just naive, and doesn't realize how it comes across that she doesn't allow.

Speak to people who send there now, and if their children are happy to go (and you trust their information) I would trust that much more than observation. This is my opinion based on a LOT of experience.
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amother




Amber
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 11:19 am
Chayalle wrote:

Rebetzin Kotler gave me wonderful advice when I sent my oldest to the babysitter for the first time. She said, every so often, pop in unannounced. You got out of work early, or you had an appointment - just show up to pick your child up early. You will see what's going on.

I agree that this is important to be able to do. Many in-home daycares have policies against it though. Even before COVID, some insist on bringing children out for pickup and also insist on parents calling ahead before showing up. I would not be comfortable with this, but it seems many parents are.
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amother




Pewter
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 11:19 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
She has an assistant. I’m not sure why she doesn’t let...it’s getting me nervous.....what’s she hiding?


Absolutely agree with morah. Imagine my child is in that group this year. I would hate knowing his day or care or routine was distrupted by mothers coming to visit and take some of morahs attention I would really not be happy at all.

I rely on references (mostly people I know and trust who have sent) and I do know some mothers who like to see the classroom just to determine if the size and space works for a group of x size. Group doesn't have to be in session for that.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 11:21 am
amother [ Amber ] wrote:
I agree that this is important to be able to do. Many in-home daycares have policies against it though. Even before COVID, some insist on bringing children out for pickup and also insist on parents calling ahead before showing up. I would not be comfortable with this, but it seems many parents are.


No way Jose would I send my child there (for sure pre COVID)

ETA I sent my girls to an amazing 4-year-old Morah (with a wonderful assistant!). I remember when next DD was headed for 3's, the Morah's sister (whom I'm sure is fabulous) started a group for 3 year olds. No assistant. I'm sure she's great, but I didn't send. My rule is a rule for me.

I did send my DD to clubs, run only by the assistant, at the age of 4. It was for like one extra hour, and I was okay with that, especially at that age.


Last edited by Chayalle on Mon, Dec 07 2020, 11:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 11:22 am
SixOfWands wrote:
Less likely to collude in or condone inappropriate or dangerous behaviors.


Exactly. There have been too many stories over the years.
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Ema of 4




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 11:25 am
amother [ Amber ] wrote:
I agree that this is important to be able to do. Many in-home daycares have policies against it though. Even before COVID, some insist on bringing children out for pickup and also insist on parents calling ahead before showing up. I would not be comfortable with this, but it seems many parents are.

As a playgroup morah, I can understand why they would insist on doing it this way. Parents coming in in when it is not time for pick up can really throw kids off. Morah also want time to be able to get the child ready- they shouldn’t be in the middle of snack or lunch, they need to be cleaned up, whatever they are doing shouldn’t be disrupted. When parents come at regular time they come in, but at any other time, I can understand why the morah would not want it.
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amother




Amber
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 11:27 am
Ema of 4 wrote:
As a playgroup morah, I can understand why they would insist on doing it this way. Parents coming in in when it is not time for pick up can really throw kids off. Morah also want time to be able to get the child ready- they shouldn’t be in the middle of snack or lunch, they need to be cleaned up, whatever they are doing shouldn’t be disrupted. When parents come at regular time they come in, but at any other time, I can understand why the morah would not want it.

I can understand why, but I still wouldn't be comfortable with it. Transparency is very important to me and was a big factor in where we chose to send our children. I don't believe in giving unconditional trust based on references.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 11:27 am
Ema of 4 wrote:
As a playgroup morah, I can understand why they would insist on doing it this way. Parents coming in in when it is not time for pick up can really throw kids off. Morah also want time to be able to get the child ready- they shouldn’t be in the middle of snack or lunch, they need to be cleaned up, whatever they are doing shouldn’t be disrupted. When parents come at regular time they come in, but at any other time, I can understand why the morah would not want it.


I think babysitting is different than playgroup. I wouldn't show up at playgroup expecting to take my child. But babysitting is not structured, its different, and I should be able to pop in, bundle my child, and take her home. And see what's going on.

For playgroup, I won't send without an assistant.
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amother




Denim
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 11:29 am
Success10 wrote:
As a side note, I have been invited to come see the gan in action by gannenets I was considering. I never took them up on it. Anything I'm really concerned about with a prospective gan is not going to happen when the gannenet knows someone is watching.


So you'd think. I once went to check out a playgroup that I had heard wonderful things about from three references. I went to check it out. The place was clean with lots of nice toys for the kids. Then I saw how the teacher was yelling at the assistant. This was right in front of me when she knew I can hear that. If she can yell at the assistant she can yell at the kids too, plus even if she doesn't it's not the best atmosphere. Anon because I've shared this IRL.
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Ema of 4




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 11:30 am
Chayalle wrote:
I think babysitting is different than playgroup. I wouldn't show up at playgroup expecting to take my child. But babysitting is not structured, its different, and I should be able to pop in, bundle my child, and take her home. And see what's going on.

For playgroup, I won't send without an assistant.

Yes, baby sitting would definitely be different, although I think it would be a nice courtesy to the baby sitter to at least give her 5 minutes notice....
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mommish613




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2020, 12:00 pm
I’d like to make a point that no one mentioned. Observing a Morah in action is sort of pointless- she will obviously be on her best behavior and you will likely not see what REALLY goes on.

Case in point- my daughter worked as a daycamp counselor for an “amazing” Morah. The things that went on there made her uncomfortable. It wasn’t abuse or neglect but it was small things that didn’t sit well with her. You likely would never pick up on these things by observing the Morah in action.

I don’t think you gain anything by going in and disrupting her day. She sounds like she has enough pleased parents to fill most of the class. Bring your child, after hours, for a one on one to see how she relates to him, what the daily routine is etc.
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