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Children and non-religious relatives: what are expectations?
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Dec 10 2020, 4:41 pm
I'm curious what guidelines and expectations other frum parents have on their childrens' interaction with their non-frum relatives. Do your children know these relatives aren't frum? Do you ask the non-frum relatives to avoid certain topics of conversation ? Any other guidelines for mutual respect that you've found helpful?

Thanks.
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Sake




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 10 2020, 4:53 pm
In my community the most strict are afforded the greatest accommodation.

Meaning that children and grandchildren double cover in front of a bubby who does, even if they wouldn’t ordinarily for example.

I expect that any less observant in my family and friends respect my level.

Anyone who cannot afford us the simple respect of not talking inappropriately in front of our family is not worth seeing.

That being said, we have very thick skin and we are confident in the raising of our children and to hear or see a one off offence will not harm their up bringing but support what we are instilling in them.

We are offended by blasphemy and hate not by vulgarity or insensitivity.
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Thu, Dec 10 2020, 4:58 pm
I grew up with non frum relatives who we were very close to. We just knew they werent observant as they knew we were. We respected their autonomy & they respected ours.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 10 2020, 4:58 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I'm curious what guidelines and expectations other frum parents have on their childrens' interaction with their non-frum relatives. Do your children know these relatives aren't frum? Do you ask the non-frum relatives to avoid certain topics of conversation ? Any other guidelines for mutual respect that you've found helpful?

Thanks.
We have no guidelines. We just have mutual respect. My child knows the no religious relatives live differently than us. And we just try to respect each other as best we can.
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amother
Orange


 

Post Thu, Dec 10 2020, 5:00 pm
A very very close friend of ours isn't religious. She once showed up for Shabbos day meal when we all know she doesn't live local enough to walk over, she dresses in a dress whenever she's by my house but it can be very low cut and very short, etc.
I don't prepare my kids in any day. My daughter asked her "hey how come you're not dressed for shabbos" my friend will tell her "I think the necklace I'm wearing is beautiful" but it's getting harder as my kids get older. Why can she wear this or that, eat this or that, etc. I don't stop the kids from asking her.
If they ask me I tell them "in this house we try to do kosher". Regarding dress "I try to bring you up how I was taught, but when you're older and you want to reconsider it you'll make your own decision". It can be tough. There are no right answers.
I do ask that on my turf there should be no chillul shabbos and no non kosher food brought over.
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Thu, Dec 10 2020, 5:41 pm
Respect. I dont assume they know or don't know anything in particular. So everything is translated.
I explain that we each serve Hashem differently and while we hold this way is proper and what a yeshiva kid should do, Aunt does what she holds. That way it also explains CY or not CY or any difference in practices. "Our Rav said that we cant eat that as it isnt kosher for us. But look, here is a kosher option for you!".
We make accommodations where we can - stuff that isn't halacha and we dont make anyone do anything- and they try to accommodate where they can. They wont serve us non kosher and I have to remind them no phones on YT or Shabbos. But I dont make them feel bad or ashamed.
Now that my kids are getting a little older I do mention that "Grandpa cant say the bracha well as he wasnt lucky to go to Yeshiva like you but he tries his best and that is what counts and Hashem knows that..."
At a shabbos meal we explain "so for anyone who wants to wash before bread, now we are going to the kitchen..." and they do what they want. Some come, some dont. We explain the seder to them. And while we walk them to the door we dont walk them to their car. (We offer if someone wants to stay to find them someplace local to sleep).
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Thu, Dec 10 2020, 7:08 pm
I actually say nothing. We have an unspoken agreement between the adults to respect each other and we lead all conversations to neutral topics. In general I tell my kids that if they have questions about other people to wait until we are alone to ask.
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amother
Pumpkin


 

Post Thu, Dec 10 2020, 7:15 pm
Sake wrote:
In my community the most strict are afforded the greatest accommodation.

Meaning that children and grandchildren double cover in front of a bubby who does, even if they wouldn’t ordinarily for example.

I expect that any less observant in my family and friends respect my level.

Anyone who cannot afford us the simple respect of not talking inappropriately in front of our family is not worth seeing.

That being said, we have very thick skin and we are confident in the raising of our children and to hear or see a one off offence will not harm their up bringing but support what we are instilling in them.

We are offended by blasphemy and hate not by vulgarity or insensitivity.


Your comparing frum grand children double covering in front of grandparents to not frum relatives behavior in front of frum relatives ?

Thats apples and oranges
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amother
Turquoise


 

Post Thu, Dec 10 2020, 7:21 pm
Grandma drives over on Shabbat. She uses her magic carpet lol.

If I tried to protect my kids from non frum relatives we would have no family.

The kids know to ask me what they're allowed to eat when we have events in their turf. My extended family is pretty conservative in how they conduct themselves anyway.

My bigger issue is with family that claims to be frum and then is mechalel Shabbat or eating vegetarian out and claiming it's ok. That confused my kids more than anything else. They walked over in Shabbat and then brought food (cookies) that had no hechsher just a vegan symbol.
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finprof




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 10 2020, 8:03 pm
We are OOT BTs.The ONLY "Jewish" school option is a community school with only a handful of frum students. My kids are learning a lot about free will and respect for everyone. You can't keep a little kid from talking about something (my oldest is 8).
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allthingsblue




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 10 2020, 8:06 pm
I would never ask my relatives to do things differently for us.
My kids learn at a young age that people are different and not everyone is frum.
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amother
Red


 

Post Thu, Dec 10 2020, 10:44 pm
My mom had a bunch of first cousins who were never frum but she was very close with them. It wasn’t an issue. We knew that we couldn’t eat at Cousin Rosie or Tante Shirley’s house but could have tea or Coke in a glass. If my cousin came for the weekend and only had a sleeveless dress I lent her a blouse to wear with it if we went to shul. My mom never discussed the situation and there was no need to. We accepted being the frum minority in the family the same way we accepted being the Jewish minority in tbe neighborhood. I think these things are a problem only when you live in an overwhelmingly frum area so your kids think the whole world is frum.
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amother
Coral


 

Post Thu, Dec 10 2020, 11:41 pm
orange, you really sound like a special friend.
it's great that your kids are so comfortable talking to you and asking you their questions.
One thing if you don't mind my suggestion: I wouldn't use the phrase "they can reconsider" when they're older. Why would they or should they reconsider? I wouldn't mention it or put that idea in their head.
If you would be handing them a gold crown studded with genuine diamonds all over, would they need to "consider" accepting it or would they consider trashing it? it's something that is so precious and such a treasure, it's a given that you would gladly accept it. By raising them with the values that you are, you are giving them something much better and more precious than a gold crown.
If my kids ask me questions, I tell them along these lines, it's sad that this person never learned how special Shabbos is..we're so lucky we learned...
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Elfrida




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 10 2020, 11:51 pm
I grew up with non jewish cousins, but I do t remember any official explanation. Their mother knew what she could feed us (fruit), and as we got older we just understood the differences. It was hard for my mother when her brother married someone who wasn't Jewish. By the time we came along, she had made her peace with the situation. We absorbed her attitude and just accepted the situation as normal.

We once asked my mother why her brother had married someone not Jewish, and that was the only time I saw her really uncomfortable with the situation, as she struggled to find an answer that would satisfy us without blaming him. We never really got a satisfactory answer.

Having said that, one needs a very strong personal relationship to overcome the cultural issues. As children it didn't matter to us, because children can play together without worrying. As teenagers we naturally grew apart, and today we only see each other at extended family events. (The last one was my grandmothers nintieth birthday.)

I agree that it is much harder with relatives who are Jewish but not frum. For us there were very clear lines. Our cousins weren't Jewish, so they didn't have to worry about anything to so with halacha. Finding shades of grey is much harder for children. The parents own attitude and security in what they are doing is crucial for the children's acceptance of the situation.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Thu, Dec 10 2020, 11:52 pm
Most of my mom’s family is not religious and most of my dad’s family is secular too and my dad never allowed us to have any contact with any of the secular or even the LWMO family members, and would be very nasty to them when they tried to be nice and friendly. (Yes my dad is a narcissist)

Eventually all of them stopped trying to keep a relationship with us, and we, the kids, don’t really know them, and they don’t really know us either.

Now I’m married, not under my dad’s control anymore, and I don’t know if I should reach out to them, explain what my dad is and try to form some type of relationship with them, or should I just keep them out of my life, just like up until now because this is how I grew up and they don’t even know me at all anymore.

They tried to be nice, one uncle even came to my wedding (again, he doesn’t even know me, we didn’t have a relationship for years) and my dad only bothered to give him the death stare, so he went home.

I feel horrible, I’m married for a couple of years now, it took me some time to get out of my dad’s control, but I feel it’s right for me to fix some mistakes my dad has done. Especially now that I see how all of you have such open minded and normal relationships with such family members.
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essie14




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 11 2020, 2:27 am
allthingsblue wrote:
I would never ask my relatives to do things differently for us.
My kids learn at a young age that people are different and not everyone is frum.


That's what I do. We live in Israel, in a neighborhood which happens to be all religious, but the streets are not closed on Shabbat or anything like that. We have neighbors who have non religious relatives who drive over. My kids know that we don't drive on Shabbat, but that some people do. We eat kosher but not everyone makes that choice.
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 11 2020, 2:34 am
I would ask them to dress somewhat decently. Less for my kids chinuch and more for DH and older boys. They would be awfully uncomfortable eating a shabbos meal or any meal with someone in a tank top and booty shorts. My extended not religious family totally understands that.

On shabbos no chulil shabbos publicly. If you want to go into a room you are staying in as long as no one can hear you do whatever you want.

Probably not showing my kids videos on their smartphone without vetting through me. And everyone doesn't curse in front of us anyway so I don't even have to ask for that. I'd ask them not to talk about LGBT or certain things around the kids but again they do that without asking. They have a lot of common sense.

Besides for those things I don't really care. My kids will be exposed and I will teach them that we don't judge or condone others. We know what hashem says and we follow it and what others do is not our business.
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Teomima




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 11 2020, 4:13 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Do your children know these relatives aren't frum?

Yes. We also have relatives who aren't even Jewish, and my children know that.
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Do you ask the non-frum relatives to avoid certain topics of conversation?

No.
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Any other guidelines for mutual respect that you've found helpful?

I don't shelter my kids. They live in the real world and there's no way to keep them from being exposed to people who live life in a way that's different from the path we've chosen. Instead I use it as a learning experience, teaching them why we do/do not do certain things those relatives do/do not do. I explain the reasons why in a way that they learn to value our traditions, heritage, and practices. We discuss the reasons behind why we kept Shabbat/keep kosher/etc, so ultimately my children ends up learning even more about, and having greater respect for, our religious values. But most importantly, I focus on how we are all human, and these relatives are still family, and love and mutual respect are the most important thing of all.
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amother
Mauve


 

Post Fri, Dec 11 2020, 4:17 am
My nonfrum adult family members don't dress in booty shorts in any case. They probably wear tank tops sometimes, but they wouldn't wear them to my place.

They come in pants and Tshirts and that's just fine. I've never told them what to wear.

I think having close family is paramount. I would jump over backwards not to distance any of my family.

Basically I have no expectations that they put on a show when they come over. They aren't the type to curse anyway, or to bring up raunchy topics in front of the kids. I've never had an issue.
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Another mom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 11 2020, 6:32 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
We have no guidelines. We just have mutual respect. My child knows the no religious relatives live differently than us. And we just try to respect each other as best we can.

Same!! Grew up like this and their kids and mine get along. Not only mutual respect... love! 3rd generation have less contact, but that would happen w frum relatives too//
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