Children and non-religious relatives: what are expectations?

LovesHashem

Fri, Dec 11 2020, 7:22 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

We have no guidelines. We just have mutual respect. My child knows the no religious relatives live differently than us. And we just try to respect each other as best we can.

All the things I mentioned in my post are things all my non religious relatives do without us ever asking. So yes - it's about mutual respect.

I just listed the things that would be important to explain to someone who didn't know anything about our lifestyle.

Shuly

Fri, Dec 11 2020, 7:33 am

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

If they ask me I tell them "in this house we try to do kosher". Regarding dress "I try to bring you up how I was taught, but when you're older and you want to reconsider it you'll make your own decision".

You can show respect and also give over the message to your children that the person is unfortunately not doing the right thing.
I think the bolded is very confusing for children.

saralem

Fri, Dec 11 2020, 8:22 am

We’re OOT BTs. So our kids were surrounded by secular family. And some non-Jewish too. We always invited them to us for every yomtov. My parents visited every Shabbos and my in-laws too. Our kids have tremendous love for them and always understood that although they weren’t frum, they were revered and respected. My kids are grown now and have such love of family. It comes out of mutual respect and modeling the way.

zaq

Fri, Dec 11 2020, 10:38 am

Shuly wrote:

You can show respect and also give over the message to your children that the person is unfortunately not doing the right thing.
I think the bolded is very confusing for children.

I don't understand why a frum person would tell her children that when they grow up they can reconsider being frum. What kind of guidance is that? Would anyone tell their kids " we don't steal, but when you get older you can reconsider that" or "we cross on the green but when you're older you can reconsider that"? Bizarre thinking, and as you say, discombobulating for children, who tend to be black-and-white thinkers and need the security of knowing what is ok and what isn't. "We try to keep kosher"?? As Yoda would say, "there is no try, there is only do or not do."

One can address the issue of unobservant relatives with tact and sensitivity without cravenly describing Jewish observance as a "lifestyle choice" or using other mealy-mouthed lingo.

For that matter, the same holds true vis a vis relatives who are more RW than you. If your dc want to know why Uncle Motty wears peyess, a hat and beard while Abba wears a kippah srugah and is clean-shaven, there's no reason to fumfer around and tell them they can reconsider their observance when they get older. (If they will, they will, whether you encourage it or not.) Uncle Motty has his way and we have ours, period.

amother

Fri, Dec 11 2020, 10:57 am

Thanks everyone. Appreciate the advice - lots of interesting reading here.

In our case, my younger sibling went OTD ~10 years ago. He's always been a big part of my kids' life, and they don't know he's OTD (around them he acts the same as he always did). For the past few years, he's been dating a secular woman. Understandably (from her perspective), she's not willing to "fake" being frum and probably wouldn't even know how. I know some of this is their issue to work out as a couple but I'm not sure what I should do or how to start the conversation that their uncle hasn't been frum for years.

Teomima

Sat, Dec 12 2020, 11:59 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I don't think it really should be their issue to work out. He shouldn't be faking in front of your children and she certainly shouldn't have to. You really do need to have that conversation with your kids. It's really not hard. My younger brother is also secular and my kids totally understand. If anything it's a shame he's been pretending thus far. In my experience children have a much easier time accepting a relative who lives life differently than they do than they have accepting being lied to/misled.

When you talk to them, just emphasize that their uncle is still the same person he always was, that he still loves them and will always be there for them.

LovesHashem

Sat, Dec 12 2020, 12:31 pm

Teomima wrote:

Agreed. I think she should respect your family values by dressing not overly proactively, and not cursing around kids, or talking about certain things like LGBT ideas. Besides that you can explain to your children that what others do is between them and hashem. You can explain privately that marrying a nonjew is an aveirah but at the same time it's not our place to tell others what to do, or judge them.