I have emunah, but my bitachon feels lost forever.

amother

Pewter

Tue, Dec 15 2020, 12:21 pm

amother [ Amber ] wrote:

I think the difficulty with these types of emunah books and shiurim is that most of the time they have a happy ending. A man was poor and sick and he had emunah and he got better. So they inspire people to believe and hope for a fix to their problem. If a person is struggling for a long time, these type of stories with magical good endings are difficult to relate to.

I called the number. I heard various people say they are dedicating learning for various fixes in their life. One person needs health, another parnassah, and another a shidduch. And that's exactly the difficulty. These shiurim and books often train us to believe that emunah and bitochon will lead to the problem getting fixed. I'm not sure there's any connection.

This.
Or better yet, when the ship has already sailed.
Or maybe you should feel like garbage because you didn't do something-like you didn't light 40 candles 10 years ago when your hopes were still alive and now you are just a double failure-you failed at your dream and you failed to be positively proactive.

I can listen to the shiur as per Shiskabob, but I'll bet a donut that I end up crying and not in the good way.

amother

Tue, Dec 15 2020, 12:29 pm

amother [ Amber ] wrote:

This is definitely part of it.
I cant fathom any lidtening time to a story about someone who lost their bitachon but then, lo and behold god did something amazing and it came back.
Thats not doing it for me either. Not everyone gets that happy ending.

amother

Mauve

Tue, Dec 15 2020, 12:30 pm

I know the feeling. I believe Hashem can, and He might even, but He doesn't always, and then it feels extra cruel, like a parent withholding love. And didn't He send the problem in the first place? And if He sent the problem because He wants me to connect to Him via tfilla, I'm not feeling very close to someone who hurts me to make me pull close.

It's all very confusing.

What's helped me sometimes is to try to zoom out of my own big and small issues and think of the larger picture, and how much a deeper relationship with Hashem would benefit me and my emotional equanimity, regardless of whether it would produce "vending machine" results.

The path isn't linear, though, and I've found it easier or harder depending on circumstances.

Hugs.

ShishKabob

Tue, Dec 15 2020, 12:39 pm

Can you ask Hashem in your own words to please help you out with whatever you are going thru? If you know that He exists and that He can hear you, then please try to talk to him and tell Him your problems. Tell Him how upset you are at Him. Tell Him that it bothers you that you don't have Bitachon in Him.

There are many people that when they were at the end of their rope, they cried from the depths of their heart: "Hashem, if you truly exist and care about me then please send me a sign!" Send me a sign so that I know that you care about me and that you know that I'm struggling down here! I think it has to be a very sincere request. Many times if you look out for the sign, you will find it. Maybe not the same day, or the same week, but it'll come Beezras Hashem!

I feel really sorry for you. I love the story of a Rebbe or Gadol in the Concentration Camps, that was just begging Hashem that he should not lose his trust in Hashem. That was something he couldn't tolerate and didn't know if it was a nisayon that he would be able to pass, so he was able to endure the pain, the harsh conditions, the embarrassment, the hunger, but the thing he wasn't sure he'd be able to endure, was the lack of Bitachon.

you are not alone in your struggles!

Chanuka is the perfect time to start trying to work on asking Hashem for help with Bitachon!
I heard that if you start a good thing on chanuka, it is mesugal that it will have a kiyum!

Bhatzlocha!!!!

amother

Tue, Dec 15 2020, 12:42 pm

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

I know this should work, but I cant get there. I am so angry at god that this connection just doesnt work for me.
And the hard things im talking about are big and they are many. Thats probably why this seems insurmountable for me.

amother

White

Tue, Dec 15 2020, 12:44 pm

The Chazon Ish writes that there is a common misconception of bitachon: it is NOT that we believe that Hashem will make everything the way we want. That is the kind of bitachon that people have when things are going well for them!
Rather it’s believing that EVERYTHING that happens is from Hashem, even if it’s not the way we want. And we should believe that it’s part of His plan, for our (eventual?) good.

That said, I have not had an easy life at all. My prayers were not answered the way I wanted. 25 years later I’m in a better place than had my prayers then been answered. But it’s still hard for me to daven a lot (like I did then). Instead I daven very short & concise and try to remind myself that everything is up to Him. I can only ask for what I think is best & hope that He is kind to me in some way.
Hugs!

amother

Tue, Dec 15 2020, 12:45 pm

ShishKabob wrote:

I yell at god all of the time. And tell him how I feel and why im angry at him. Ive never gotten any clarity with that. And also never seen anything positive from that.

ShishKabob

Tue, Dec 15 2020, 12:47 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm going to bow out after this one, bli neder. Smile

One of the things that we have to convince ourselves and believe, is that Hashem is a kol yachol. He can do ANYTHING! Nothing is too difficult for him. If He put you in a situation, shouldn't He be able to get you out of it? Even if for your, it seems impossible to ever be in a better place, but for Hashem it is possible and it's as simple as 1, 2, 3. He can give you a million dollars, just the same as giving you $100.00!

Hugs and wishes for a better future!
Ah freilichen Chanuka!

amother

Tue, Dec 15 2020, 12:47 pm

amother [ White ] wrote:

Well I cant get there. Thats the issue.
Why do I deserve the things I got in life? I just cant live a life with god in it if I cant trust him for things. Thats the way I feel Sad

amother

Tue, Dec 15 2020, 12:49 pm

ShishKabob wrote:

I'm going to bow out after this one, bli neder. Smile

but this is why it hurts so much, the fact that I was always taught that hashem can do all. But for me it was not so Sad

amother

Papaya

Tue, Dec 15 2020, 12:50 pm

I'm a convert.

I've been through some very horrible things.

And sometimes I view that Hashem is the abusive husband I can't divorce.

And I ask myself "Is my desire to even still work with Him just trauma bonding? I can't beat my children and destroy their bodies and hearts, but Hashem can do that to me because He has done so much good before and knows it's "what's good for me" and He'll reward later? A husband according to Torah must provide for His wife, but Hashem doesn't need to provide for me, and he can humiliate me to boot? and I have to stay married to Him and keep cleaning his house, raising his children, and feeding him food, so to speak? I can't divorce him, ever? I really want this?"

(No, I don't want to not be Jewish cvs. I hope my point can be taken for what it is.)

I don't know a solution, and I don't really have much advice. But I want OP to know she's not alone in just feeling hopeless.

amother

White

Tue, Dec 15 2020, 12:51 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Well I cant get there. Thats the issue.
Why do I deserve the things I got in life? I just cant live a life with god in it if I cant trust him for things. Thats the way I feel Sad

Fair enough. Don’t be too hard on yourself. Iyov was considered a great tzaddik even with all of his hard questions towards Hashem. But be aware that it’s because of your current difficult situation, and try to hang in there & wait for better days...

I’m tearing as I write this, because honestly I’ve been there too.

amother

Lilac

Tue, Dec 15 2020, 12:54 pm

What helps me when I feel like this is to look back and see how much I've grown over the years. I went through so many hardships and I would never want to live through this by choice, but I have become more patient, diligent and humble. It takes years and years to get to this. The first step is acceptance. Stop fighting Him.

amother

Mauve

Tue, Dec 15 2020, 12:54 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Well I cant get there. Thats the issue.
Why do I deserve the things I got in life? I just cant live a life with god in it if I cant trust him for things. Thats the way I feel Sad

The part that upsets me is that it feels like a counterproductive way to make us connect to Him. It's all from Him; of course it is, because my Emunah declares that He is in charge of all.

And if He has a grand plan for my eventual good, or my growth, or whatever. Why does He have to make it hurt so much? If He could do anything... Couldn't He make whatever end goal He wants to achieve happen without so much pain?

A wise woman once told me that this is the definition of golus; growth and Hashem's Great Plan through pain. Growth through joy will come with Moshiach.

It doesn't always help, but it helps sometimes, to know that my private suffering is a part of golus rather than what feels like a personal potch.

I hope you find an idea that brings you comfort, or better yet, that your circumstances change enough for you to feel loved by Hashem.

amother

Gold

Tue, Dec 15 2020, 1:06 pm

OP are you familiar with radical acceptance? It's a technique that I've worked with in therapy and it has helped me move on from past events and trauma.

I think it might help you move on from the past and accept that you currently do not have bitachon. I understand that this can sound like "giving up", but it really is a technique to help you accept the reality of situations and your feelings about them. It doesn't mean that you have to like what happens. It helps to let go of ruminating on the past, berating yourself for feeling or not feeling a certain way, and to stop trying to do things that seem like they "should be" but are really counterproductive. In your case, this could mean accepting that bad events have happened and cannot be changed, acknowledging that you feel a lack of bitachon and cannot force yourself to have it, and that you have a different relationship with Hashem and religion than what is pushed as ideal.

You cannot force yourself to feel anything including bitachon, but you can continue to live life as a frum Jew and free yourself to find other ways to connect spiritually.

Here are some links that might help you:

https://mytherapynyc.com/radical-acceptance/
https://www.psychologytoday.co.....tance
https://dialecticalbehaviorthe.....ance/ (this one starts walking you through the practice)

PinkFridge

Tue, Dec 15 2020, 1:06 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Im the OP. I have not davened in over 15 years. Not stepped into shul in close to 10 years. And I am 100% sure that it is connected. If I dont trust hashem, why would I daven to him when, in the past I davened and nothing good happened, even sometimes bad things happened.

Rabbi Reisman speaks about davening apropos to the concept of the normal ruts we get in, the yemei ha'ahava, where we feel ON, and everything is going right, and yemei hasina, which I know I don't have to elaborate on. He brings a moshol of a traveling clock repairman, who goes from village to village to repair the timepieces. But some are irreparable. Because it's important to keep winding the mechanism so that it won't atrophy.

The nimshol is, we need to keep davening, even by rote. I won't say that anyone here who've given up on davening is beyond hope. It's never too late.

AND I will also say that I recognize that some of you who are reading this are rolling your eyes because for you it's beyond the regular ups and downs of life; the disappointment and feeling of abandonment is just too much.

But I'm still going to hit send because it might still help. Maybe someone will say something on a regular basis, formal or informal, just a few minutes, and it might be meaningful.

Hug

to everyone.

PinkFridge

Tue, Dec 15 2020, 1:11 pm

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

Not to deter anyone for shuiring and working on their relationship with Hashem, but does anyone else find that often these shuirim (and I have not listened to these and not referring to these specifically) anger you? The prerecord/not audience participation (meaning me personally), the telling me how to feel without you having been in my shoes and inability to understand my situation. Tends to make me feel frustrated more than anything.
Maybe if I had more bitachon Hashem would answer me yes or maybe I would just set myself up for more disappoint? Only Hashem knows.

Rabbi Ashear is not for everyone. I wouldn't recommend him to someone who's trying to get back feelings but for someone who wants to maintain and grow her feelings of emunah. I've heard him speak and he will say that it's not all happy endings and magical thinking. Sometimes people miss the plane and it doesn't crash/and they miss the interview, and they did need that job. That too is emunah, and he will include those kinds of stories. But not too often.

Maybe, closer, to what some people need/can handle now, is Rabbi Travis on TorahAnytime. He has a series, 700+ strong and just a few minutes each, called Thanking Hashem When Things Look Bad. He's walked the walk.

PinkFridge

Tue, Dec 15 2020, 1:17 pm

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

I can tell you, the footsteps story, the back of the tapestry, all that. It might work. For some. Sometimes.
This is when I think of people who have been through gehenem on earth and maintained their faith, and lived vibrant Jewish lives. I DON'T beat myself up and say, if they could do that, how can I not? Instead I ask myself, how did they do it? What did they tap into? Can I do it too?

PinkFridge

Tue, Dec 15 2020, 1:20 pm

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

There's a very pretty Jim Croce song, with very relevant lyrics. "Well I've had my share of broken dreams/and more than a couple of falls/ and in chasing what I thought were moonbeams/I have run into a couple of walls/And in looking back/at the faces I've been and the mountains I've started to climb/I just look at myself and find/I've learned the hard way every time."

The problem with the song is the last line. Would that we all feel this during our lives: "Well in looking back at the lessons I've learned/I would sure be the first one to say/as I look at myself today/I wouldn't have done it every other way."

Yeah, right.

But I like and liked your post. That's realistic for me.

ETA: To correct lyrics.

Last edited by PinkFridge on Wed, Dec 16 2020, 7:10 am; edited 1 time in total