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Difference of opinion with my boss, what do you think?
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 8:14 pm
We are looking to hire for a position that would pay $50-60K a year. We expect to hire a man for the job because there's a lot of physical labor involved and a lot of hours a week, so most women wouldn't be able to physically do the job, and most wouldn't be interested even if they can physically do it.

We got a huge response to the one ad we put out, apparently because so many people are unemployed due to Covid. My boss doesn't want to hire anyone 30 and up, he only wants someone young, because he says it's not respectful to offer a man with experience and a family to support so little money. I say those are the people who need the job the most. Someone who has a family to support is more desperate than someone really young and it would be a huge chessed to give the job to someone like that, assuming they're qualified for the job.

He won't even have older people come down for an interview. I don't understand his point of view at all and I'm wondering what everyone else thinks.
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amother




Green
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 8:15 pm
He is the boss- his choice
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amother




cornflower
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 8:18 pm
You should hire the best candidate for the job.

That’s my opinion
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 8:19 pm
amother [ Green ] wrote:
He is the boss- his choice


Obviously. I'm just curious what other people think, because I really can't understand his point of view.
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groovy1224




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 8:21 pm
People can decide on their own if a position or a salary is beneath them..why decide for them?

And second of all, is 60k such a pathetic salary that someone over 30 shouldn't even consider it? Obviously many people make more, but thats hardly minimum wage.
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amother




Fuchsia
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 8:25 pm
I think your boss doesn't know much about employment law.
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thunderstorm




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 8:25 pm
I agree with the boss. It doesn’t sound like a job for someone older. Doing lots of physical labor for that pay is hard and pretty demeaning , especially if the person had a more prestigious position before. (50-60K is bubkes in the grand scheme of things, with today’s expenses when you have a family)
But there might be a 50 yr old out there , who is strong, doesn’t need to earn more and is eager to do something like this .So don’t nix them all.
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allthingsblue




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 8:26 pm
I strongly disagree with your boss. If the candidates are equally fit for the job, let them decide whether or not the salary is too low for them. He shouldn't be making that call for them.
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dorothy1




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 8:27 pm
I agree with you and your boss is also doing something illegal.
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notshanarishona




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 8:30 pm
(1) I assume it's the boss's choice? What's your position? Is he asking your opinion? Otherwise, keep quiet..
(2) 50-60K is not a small salary depending on what the job is. Age and gender should not be the deciding factors but again unless someone is planning to sue for discrimination the boss is in charge.
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Redbird




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 8:31 pm
Maybe he looks at the position as entree level, and he doesn't understand why someone ambitious and 30+ would look for something entry level?
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thunderstorm




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 8:35 pm
Redbird wrote:
Maybe he looks at the position as entree level, and he doesn't understand why someone ambitious and 30+ would look for something entry level?

I see it the same way
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 8:36 pm
It's a small company with no HR department. He doesn't really care about employment laws, nobody will ever know why they weren't hired or called for an interview. He's not advertising "job for male under the age of 30 only".

I'm the one who's screening the resumes, which is why the conversation came up. He values my opinion, but he's the one with the final decision.

The way I see it, it's not a large salary, but it's definitely decent. You can't support a family on that much money, but if the wife is also making in that range, it's definitely doable. I think he should interview whoever sounds qualified, offer the job to the best candidate, and let him decide if he wants the job at that salary.
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amother




Red
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 8:36 pm
I cannot post without stating that this is clearly and highly illegal.

Now that that is out of the way, as long as it is made clear how physically demanding the job is and what the pay is, I think if an older person or female person is still desperate enough to take it, it would likely be the highest form of tzedakah to hire them.
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Redbird




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 8:39 pm
If the job is say 50k for 50 hrs, that's like $20/hr for physical labor. That's not high...

OTOH, if it's 60k for 40 hrs that's a big difference
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amother




Hotpink
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 8:52 pm
We live in a world where youth is valued more than the skills and qualifications of the job candidates.

Some 40+ men are just as physically capable of heavy lifting as younger men, ( just as I am more physically fit than lots of younger women than me in the gym).

But your boss wants to discriminate - I’m assuming he’s a young person and considers a 40 or older male to be nearly infirm. 🙄

I commend you for wanting to be ethical.
The most you could do is refer him to employment laws which outlaw age and gender discrimination.
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 11:15 pm
He's actually in his 40s. I don't think he's looking at it as they're over the hill and can't do the job. I think the problem is that he never struggled financially so he doesn't understand that someone might be so desperate that they are willing to work at a physically demanding job for a lot of hours for not a lot of money.

It's 45-50 hours a week, sometimes more depending on the season.
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amother




Hotpink
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 11:24 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
He's actually in his 40s. I don't think he's looking at it as they're over the hill and can't do the job. I think the problem is that he never struggled financially so he doesn't understand that someone might be so desperate that they are willing to work at a physically demanding job for a lot of hours for not a lot of money.

It's 45-50 hours a week, sometimes more depending on the season.


I hear... and I agree with you.
There will be people who are desperate enough to take the job.
Especially someone who is currently unemployed or underemployed.
And if there is room for growth the salary is not that terrible.
Regardless, the boss can place the offering salary in the ad, and let potential candidates decide if they want to apply.
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zaq




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 11:36 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
I think your boss doesn't know much about employment law.


Make that doesn’t know anything. It’s illegal to discriminate based on age or gender or marital status or family size. Your boss better make darn sure he interviews people of all ages and genders and family configurations before he gets slapped with a discrim suit. And it’s not for him to decide that the salary is s an insult. If a qualified individual applies, it’s the applicant’s decision. Yes, even if it’s a forty-five year old mother of twelve. If she can do the job, she can do the job, period. And if a twenty-two year old single man can’t do the job, he can’t, period.
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amother




Apricot
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2020, 11:59 pm
While its great that you are compassionate and feel for others, many bosses dont understand how it is for ppl desperate for work, and as you stated, your boss never struggled financially so he surely doesn't understand.

And, while he probably knows he's violating the laws by discriminating, most bosses, unfortunately, discriminate, like your boss is doing, and most ppl dont get caught because it's hard to get enough "proof".

So, I'm not saying it's okay, but unfortunately, it's the reality among the bosses I've worked for, and I'm saying this as a worker that's disgusted and sick of how the majority of bosses have no compassion and dont follow laws that they dont want to...but its hashems world, and it seems like the bad ones always "win"(as you said yourself, your boss never struggled, yet he's clearly discriminating...)

This is why I always wonder if its possible to be a decent "mensch " boss, as your boss knows he doesn't want to be guilted into paying a man who has to support a family more $, and he knows that choosing someone other than a young, unmarried...will not yield as much energy, stamina, etc....because with a family, one has other responsibilities which affects workers, and the boss knows he needs the work done for the business......I'm still wondering how its possible to be "good" to ppl and "good" for the business...

I'd be surprised if your boss listens to you in this area, but it's good to try...
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