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Forum -> Household Management -> Kosher Kitchen

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DrMom

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 9:03 am

Two sets of dishtowels, one garbage can in our house.

amother

Firebrick

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 9:05 am

LovetoLive wrote:

I was wondering this recently. Is there a halacha against mixing meat and milk, even if you don't eat it?

If I put a piece of cheese in the garbage and then spill hot chicken grease over it, I just created a pure trief thing. yes its in the garbage and nobody is eating it, but am I allowed to create trief?

Yes, this can be an issue depending how hot it is. Definitely worth asking a shaila if it's relevant to you.

etky

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 9:08 am

Blessing1 wrote:

I just want to confirm that you have 2 garbage cans because of convenience and not because you're satmer.

We have two cans simply because two gives you more room than one. So, two sinks and a garbage can under each sink Smile

And, like Six of Wands, we're MO.

honeymoon

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 9:53 am

LovetoLive wrote:

I think the issur of mixing milk and meat is only for cooking or getting any form of pleasure out of it. ex: smelling, feeding pets etc.

I don't believe cheese mixed with chicken bones in a garbage can filled with tissues, potato peels makes for a very pleasurable experience..

Teomima

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 10:06 am

Dish towels makes sense. I buy mine in red, blue, and yellow. But garbages? Never heard of it. Can't even imagine why, it's not like anything comes out from the can and can contaminate the rest of the kitchen.

Also, my kitchen is mostly strictly parve. 70% of all food I prep is parve, as is the vast majority of my cook and bake ware. If I insisted on separate garbages or fridges or whatever for everything, I'd have to have three!!

Miri1

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 10:10 am

I have two cans, one by each counter. It's for convenience - because the built in can is tiny. And this way I have a garbage on hand wherever I'm working. Kashrus wasn't a consideration.

amother

Emerald

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 10:34 am

Two refrigerators -- one milk and one meat is pretty common in Israel.

My whole kitchen is dairy -- we are vegetarians, so why bother with parve?

LovesHashem

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 11:05 am

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

Two refrigerators -- one milk and one meat is pretty common in Israel.

My whole kitchen is dairy -- we are vegetarians, so why bother with parve?

I've been living here for years and I've never ever heard of this.

amother

Seagreen

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 11:11 am

I have two garbage cams but uts for convenience. I have three sinks and milk/meat is on separate sides of my kitchen. I dont separate towels but have a lot of them in my kitchen in a designated cabinet and have a few out at once on separate sides.

amother

Firebrick

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 11:31 am

honeymoon wrote:

I was told by a mashgiach that there are kashrus considerations if the food is hot enough.

miami85

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 12:02 pm

LovetoLive wrote:

I would think that something in the garbage would be akin to "nosein taam l'fgam"

Elfrida

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 12:49 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

I've been living here for years and I've never ever heard of this.

Not many Israeli kitchen are big enough for two fridges.

I have friends who have a separate rubbish bin for Pesach.

zaq

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 2:15 pm

LovetoLive wrote:

I was wondering this recently. Is there a halacha against mixing meat and milk, even if you don't eat it?

the basic issurim are cooking, eating and deriving benefit. So if you accidentally made a salami-with-melted-cheddar sandwich, you would have to discard it and could not feed it to your dog or give it to your letter carrier (because that would create goodwill between the two of you, which would be a benefit to you). Nor could you use a face pack made of beef extract mixed with whipped cream even if you didn't make it yourself. I suspect that deliberately mixing cold meat and milk is an issur d'rabbanan even if you derive no benefit from it, but have never heard of an issur against allowing meat and milk to mingle by happenstance in the garbage.

Disclaimer: just because I never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist somewhere. There are always dissenting opinions that are not the accepted halacha.

Frumme

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 2:58 pm

zaq wrote:

I thought basar b'cholov only applies to mixing kosher meat and kosher milk? Perhaps there are different opinions (as usual. Two Jews, three opinions... Lol)

Amelia Bedelia

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 3:10 pm

I remember learning that one should be careful with meat and dairy even in the garbage. I don't think it's an outright issur, but yes, I do try to be careful when pouring one onto the other even in the trash can. For example, throwing out a disposable cereal bowl with a bit of milk into chicken bowls. I would try to cover the chicken bones with another piece of trash, or something. I have no idea if it's actually my minhag, but it certainly can't hurt! I don't know anyone who has a separate garbage can, but I assume it's an extra stringency.

I thought everyone had separate dish towels, usually blue for milchigs and red for fleishig.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 3:22 pm

LovetoLive wrote:

The halacha is that you cannot BENEFIT from the mixture. I can't let my cats or dog eat any type of food that is manufactured with both meat and any type of dairy product. The reason is because I enjoy my pets, and therefore I would be benefiting from the mixture. (I am also not allowed to own a factory that makes dog food that is made with milk and meat mixed together. I would benefit financially.)

I can feed them ham if I want to, but I can't give them mixed food. There's no problem with them eating stam treif. I may be going too far, but if I want to give my dog a piece of cheese, I'll hand feed her instead of putting it in her meaty food dish.

In America it's hard to find "kosher" pet food, because it's common practice to add milk byproducts to the food in order to raise the protein and calcium amounts in a really cheap way. I remember roaming up and down the aisles of Petco, reading every single bag, trying to find something that would work - and then I'd go back for another bag, and find out that the company changed their formula! Banging head

Pesach was a nightmare. Trying to find food that doesn't have any of the 5 grains, and doesn't have milk mixed with meat, was nearly impossible. I usually ended up buying a crazy expensive bag of hypoallergenic vet-approved food. B'H my animals can eat kitniyot!

In Israel, every pet store I've been to only sells "kosher" pet food without the forbidden mixture. It's also easier to find grain free food without paying a fortune.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 3:30 pm

Frumme wrote:

I thought basar b'cholov only applies to mixing kosher meat and kosher milk? Perhaps there are different opinions (as usual. Two Jews, three opinions... Lol)

Nope. Read my post about dog and cat food. It's still ossur.

If a mixture is unfit to eat even by an animal, then it is permitted because it's not for anyone's benefit.

As for garbage cans, I don't throw away meat or milk. If I have any leftovers, they either go to my pets, or to the stray cats who congregate outside my kitchen window, hoping for a treat.

Green waste goes into the compost pile outside, so the only thing in my garbage is non recyclable packaging. I'll even wash out a container and reuse it several times before I will throw it away. I do have two separate cabinets for storing containers, so I won't accidentally put something meaty in a diary container.

Reduce, reuse, recycle!

flowerpower

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 3:33 pm

yo'ma wrote:

Ever heard of it? Specifically for Satmar. Is it actually a thing or their thing? I know these group of Satmars and they said they need to have separate garbage cans, one for milichig and one for fleishig. The only reason I can think of is because the kitchens are somewhat separated, so they don’t want the milichig stuff brought into the the fleishig area. Can that be it or is it really a thing?

Stop it already with this “satmer”! Never heard of separate garbage cans! I’m not satmer but I have one towel for milchig and fleishigs. It gets washed in hot water so no biggie.

yo'ma

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 5:15 pm

flowerpower wrote:

Stop it already with this “satmer”! Never heard of separate garbage cans! I’m not satmer but I have one towel for milchig and fleishigs. It gets washed in hot water so no biggie.

I asked about Satmar because that’s who said to do it.

Elfrida

Tue, Jan 12 2021, 7:16 pm

Frumme wrote:

I thought basar b'cholov only applies to mixing kosher meat and kosher milk? Perhaps there are different opinions (as usual. Two Jews, three opinions... Lol)

I have also learnt that basar v'chalav is only applicable to kosher meat. You can't eat treif meat either, but mixing it with milk doesn't make it worse.

Because treif meat doesn't come under the halacha of basar v'chalav, gaining benefit from it isn't an issue. In the case of pet food I have never heard of there being a problem.

The same way that breast milk is considered parev but trief (for older children) because it comes from a non-kosher source, meat that isn't kosher is also not considered to be fleishic.

There might be other opinions. But this is what I have always been taught.

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