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To all anti vaxers, I'm alone in this situation
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wiki




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 23 2020, 6:32 pm
amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:
Once there has been legitimate proof that it's safe and has no long term side effects.
That said, I don't see why it's ever necessary for young and healthy to take this vaccine.


"The idea" would be to create herd immunity. The vaccine is highly effective but doesn't cause every person who receives it to produce effective antibodies. Some 5 percent of vaccinated people are still susceptible to the virus.

But if just about everybody is vaccinated, then by definition the virus is not spreading around communities like wildfire, and those people without antibodies will be protected anyway because they are unlikely to be exposed to the virus.

Look, Amother who is afraid of the unknowns of the vaccine, you're right that there's a lot we don't know. But we have decades of scientific research that gives us some sense about what is a reasonable range of outcomes for our unknown situation.

I think everyone can be confident that the COVID vaccine won't give you a third arm, for example. Can we be confident that it won't harm gestating babies? Read what epidemiologists have said about mRNA mechanisms and why, to them, this idea is just as outlandish as the third arm idea.

I'm not saying that you need to trust every doctor out there, but you are calling for doctors to show some intellectual humility, so it's important to realize that too much skepticism can also pass for intellectual arrogance. Why are you so sure that your reasoning is more sound than medical experts'?
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 23 2020, 6:34 pm
causemommysaid wrote:
I'm not getting into whether it's safe or not.

I believe it probably is a safe vaccine.

What really bothers me is the gaslighting.

This is a brand new vaccine. As such, there are legitimate reasons to wait a while and see what the effects are.

Those of us who give every vaccine to every baby on time are not idiots who don't understand science just because we want to wait this one out a while. We aren't conspiracy theorists who think big pharma is out to get us.

We just want the time to see the results. If that doesn't work for you, by all means go get vaccinated. I don't ridicule your decision. But have some respect and don't ridicule mine.

Stop insisting you know everything. You don't. Only time will tell, at which point I will happily roll up my sleeve.


I tend to agree with this.

I understand hesitation about a new vaccine's long-term effects, even though to me personally the long-term effects of Covid seem far more likely and far more concerning.

However, way too many people are peddling outright falsehoods. And those can and should be debunked.
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amother
Brown


 

Post Wed, Dec 23 2020, 6:36 pm
amother [ Khaki ] wrote:
I dont blame your family members who work in healthcare for taking the vaccine. I’m a health care worker and I just got it a few days ago. The risk of covid illness is higher than any scientific risk from the vaccine. I’m sorry you’re so scared of it.


Eeeehhhh.

No this isn't true. As I was finally persuaded by my medical professional friend who's been urging me not to take it, and to urge my elderly mother and MIL not to take it.
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amother
Periwinkle


 

Post Wed, Dec 23 2020, 6:38 pm
amother [ Ginger ] wrote:
You’re quite judgy. For your info I got covid already and stayed away from people for 2 weeks before coming into contact with people again. By weddings you’ll see me cringe with hugging people. My kids have been tested a few times, always negative so it’s safe to say I haven’t contributed to the spread. Maybe you did if you didn’t get it yet since it goes through masks and you cld be positive without knowing.


Cringing at hugging at weddings which shouldn't be taking place on a large scale is hardly enough to earn you Covid prevention credit.

Just saying.
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amother
Brown


 

Post Wed, Dec 23 2020, 6:40 pm
thanks wrote:
Having a vaccine to immunize against a virus is not a new idea. This vaccine is not that different than any other, such as flu, polio, mmr, etc. Most of us vaccinate against those viruses and there isn't even an outbreak, let alone a worldwide pandemic. I'm not scared of it. I think the fear of the vaccine is propaganda.
Ask a doctor you trust. (S)he will probably tell you it's safe and a good idea. Most conventional doctors are saying that.


It's the first mRNA vaccine being given en masse to humans. It's literally a brand new technology.
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Dec 23 2020, 9:51 pm
I want to thank all those posters who made me feel better by bringing in Hashem, mentioning couples that disagree on this topic and a big shout out to Mint who I really feel experienced similar feelings to me. I went from not being sure how to feel better to having my feelings completely neutralized. Thank you so much!

To answer questions about my qualifications over those in medical field, the short answer is that I am getting my information from doctors in the medical field. My doctor that knew that diet affects children’s behavior while other doctors did not, knows that the MMR has caused autism while other doctors do not, and knows that diet can stop bleeding in colitis while other doctors do not gave me my information. My doctor said he’s not taking covid vaccine, nor is his family, and it is especially dangerous for females that want to have children.

The difficulty convincing my family has absolutely nothing to do with the merits of the information. It is very hard for people with medical training to put what they learned aside and accept another view. It’s literally an identity crisis.

Let me explain the problem a little more. The flu vaccine is mandatory for my husband. Otherwise he would have had to always wear a mask (way before carona) which has social ramifications. How easy or appealing do you think it is for someone to accept that the shot he gets every year could hurt him? Once I figured out what that blockage was, it’s so understandable, it’s mean for me to bring up. Same with my daughter.

My family members are trained to trust the doctors that are promoting the vaccine. My life experience has trained me to trust the doctors that were correct about how to resolve issues.

With respect to my husband being adult, the thing is, if something cv goes wrong, it affects me. Someone mentioned there were no deaths, but there was a death in England and there is a strong suspicion of Tiffany Dover death coverup in America.

One thing is for sure. No doctor, no matter what their qualification, can know that this vaccine has no long term effects.
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Dec 23 2020, 10:57 pm
The research from past caronavirus did not produce anything. All this research is new. Also, the fact that I read vaccine research as a hobby also qualifies me Very Happy

“Vaccines for SARS, MERS and RSV have never been approved, and the data generated in the development and testing of these vaccines suggest a serious mechanistic concern: that vaccines designed empirically using the traditional approach (consisting of the unmodified or minimally modified coronavirus viral spike to elicit neutralizing antibodies), be they composed of protein, viral vector, DNA or RNA and irrespective of delivery method, may worsen COVID-19 disease via antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE),”
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Wed, Dec 23 2020, 11:20 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
The research from past caronavirus did not produce anything. All this research is new. Also, the fact that I read vaccine research as a hobby also qualifies me Very Happy

“Vaccines for SARS, MERS and RSV have never been approved, and the data generated in the development and testing of these vaccines suggest a serious mechanistic concern: that vaccines designed empirically using the traditional approach (consisting of the unmodified or minimally modified coronavirus viral spike to elicit neutralizing antibodies), be they composed of protein, viral vector, DNA or RNA and irrespective of delivery method, may worsen COVID-19 disease via antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE),”

Pretty sure there is an RSV vaccine in use for years already.
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Einikel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 23 2020, 11:29 pm
amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:
Pretty sure there is an RSV vaccine in use for years already.


https://www.webmd.com/lung/qa/.....s-rsv
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Thu, Dec 24 2020, 12:35 am
Einikel wrote:
https://www.webmd.com/lung/qa/is-there-a-vaccine-for-respiratory-syncytial-virus-rsv


חיסון סביל- RSV
נגיף Respiratory syncytial virus) RSV) הינו גורם שכיח למחלות דרכי הנשימה בתינוקות. עד גיל שנתיים כמעט כל תינוק נדבק בנגיף זה. בקרב תינוקות פגים ותינוקות עם מחלות לב וריאה קשות, הסיכון לפתח מחלה קשה מנגיף זה עם סיבוכים גבוה יותר.

החיסון פליביזומב הוא חיסון סביל יחודי נגד נגיף RSV, המיועד להגן על פגים הכי פגיעים בפני הדבקה במחלה זו (בחיסון סביל התינוק מקבל את הנוגדנים "מן המוכן" ולא צריך לייצר בעצמו). החיסון ניתן בשנה או בשנתיים הראשונות לחייהם לתינוקות בסיכון. כיוון שמדובר בחיסון סביל המספק נוגדנים לתינוק מבלי שהוא מעורר את מערכת החיסון העצמאית של תינוק, יש צורך במתן מנות חוזרות בעונת השנה בה הנגיף מסתובב.

החיסון ניתן מדי חודש בין חודשי נובמבר עד מרץ לתינוקות הבאים:

א. ילדים שנולדו פגים, הלוקים במחלת ריאות כרונית והזקוקים לטיפול בחמצן - עד לגיל שנתיים.

ב. ילדים שנולדו פגים, הלוקים במחלת הריאות שאובחנה אצלם על-ידי צילום חזה אופייני וסימנים קליניים (BPD broncho-pulmonary dysplasia) בגיל מתוקן של 36 שבועות הריון ושנזקקו לטיפול באחד מאלה: חמצן, תרופות משתנות, קורטיקוסטרואידים (סטרואידים) או מרחיבי סימפונות - עד לגיל שנה.

ג. ילדים שנולדו בטרם מלאו 32 שבועות הריון + 6 ימים - עד לגיל שנה (ילדים שנולדו עד שבוע הריון 32 + 6 ימים והחלו את עונת החורף לפני הגיעם לגיל שנה יקבלו את החיסון).

ד. ילדים שנולדו בטרם מלאו 34 שבועות הריון + 6 ימים - עד לגיל חצי שנה (ילדים שנולדו עד שבוע הריון 34 + 6 ימים והחלו את עונת החורף לפני הגיעם לגיל חצי שנה יקבלו את החיסון).

ה. ילדים הסובלים ממחלת לב מולדת ובהתקיים אחד מאלה - עד לגיל שנה:
ילדים המקבלים טיפול תרופתי לאי ספיקת לב
ילדים עם יתר לחץ דם ריאתי בינוני עד חמור
ילדים עם מחלת לב כחלונית (ציאנוטית)
ו. ילדים, ללא תלות בשבוע הלידה, שנולדו במשקל נמוך מ-1 ק"ג עד - לגיל שנה.

ז. ילדים, ללא תלות בשבוע הלידה, הסובלים ממחלת ריאות כרונית קשה - לעד גיל שנה

לכל הילדים הזכאים לטיפול מונע יש להמשיך ולתת את התכשיר עד תום עונת פעילות-היתר של הנגיף.

https://www.health.gov.il/Subj......aspx
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Thu, Dec 24 2020, 12:45 am
Einikel wrote:
https://www.webmd.com/lung/qa/is-there-a-vaccine-for-respiratory-syncytial-virus-rsv

It is a passive vaccine comprised of immunoglobulins, though, not an active vaccine.
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Thu, Dec 24 2020, 12:46 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
The research from past caronavirus did not produce anything. All this research is new. Also, the fact that I read vaccine research as a hobby also qualifies me Very Happy

“Vaccines for SARS, MERS and RSV have never been approved, and the data generated in the development and testing of these vaccines suggest a serious mechanistic concern: that vaccines designed empirically using the traditional approach (consisting of the unmodified or minimally modified coronavirus viral spike to elicit neutralizing antibodies), be they composed of protein, viral vector, DNA or RNA and irrespective of delivery method, may worsen COVID-19 disease via antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE),”

It's my hobby too, so I'm just as qualified as you are. Smile
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Thu, Dec 24 2020, 12:48 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:

One thing is for sure. No doctor, no matter what their qualification, can know that this vaccine has no long term effects.

We already know that for a huge group of people, the disease itself has long-term effects, some of which may be permanent. Not sure why the vaccine is worse than the disease, honestly.
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amother
Bisque


 

Post Thu, Dec 24 2020, 1:08 am
amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:
I don't understand how anyone in their right mind can take a vaccine that wasn't studied enough and the side effects aren't known. It's scarier than Covid.


I'm not sure why you think it wasn't studied enough? Thousands of people have taken the vaccine and reported their side effects. This is supposed to be one the safest vaccines out there with no dead or live virus in it. It stimulates your body to produce covid antibodies. The side effects are documented for your knowledge. It is clear you have read nothing about it. 5-10 percent of volunteers who took the vaccine already had covid with no additional side effects shown by them. The vaccine causes the body to produce 10 to 18 times more antibodies than getting covid actually does and they predict will provide immunity for 1-3 years. We don't know long term effects and we don't know long term effects of corona but we do know that many ppl developed complications and lingering effects of covid from prolonged loss of taste/smell to chronic fatigue to kidney and heart malfunction.
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Thu, Dec 24 2020, 3:51 am
amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:
100% safe I cannot guarantee, but it's no different than other vaccines, prescriptions or procedures. It's true about many things that we can find out later something we did not know before. We can only make a decision based on what we currently know.
We know that research was generously funded, studies were done, a vaccine was developed. The technique of using mRNA is not new. Soamy reasons why this vaccine is something we should embrace and thank Hashem for.

And, BTW, the sky is not blue. It is a reflection.


Most anti vax avoid "other vaccines, prescriptions or (unnecessary) procedures". They even avoid over the counter items like tylenol.

This is how they prefer to manage their health. That should be respected.
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amother
Plum


 

Post Thu, Dec 24 2020, 4:06 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I want to thank all those posters who made me feel better by bringing in Hashem, mentioning couples that disagree on this topic and a big shout out to Mint who I really feel experienced similar feelings to me. I went from not being sure how to feel better to having my feelings completely neutralized. Thank you so much!

To answer questions about my qualifications over those in medical field, the short answer is that I am getting my information from doctors in the medical field. My doctor that knew that diet affects children’s behavior while other doctors did not, knows that the MMR has caused autism while other doctors do not, and knows that diet can stop bleeding in colitis while other doctors do not gave me my information. My doctor said he’s not taking covid vaccine, nor is his family, and it is especially dangerous for females that want to have children.

The difficulty convincing my family has absolutely nothing to do with the merits of the information. It is very hard for people with medical training to put what they learned aside and accept another view. It’s literally an identity crisis.

Let me explain the problem a little more. The flu vaccine is mandatory for my husband. Otherwise he would have had to always wear a mask (way before carona) which has social ramifications. How easy or appealing do you think it is for someone to accept that the shot he gets every year could hurt him? Once I figured out what that blockage was, it’s so understandable, it’s mean for me to bring up. Same with my daughter.

My family members are trained to trust the doctors that are promoting the vaccine. My life experience has trained me to trust the doctors that were correct about how to resolve issues.

With respect to my husband being adult, the thing is, if something cv goes wrong, it affects me. Someone mentioned there were no deaths, but there was a death in England and there is a strong suspicion of Tiffany Dover death coverup in America.

One thing is for sure. No doctor, no matter what their qualification, can know that this vaccine has no long term effects.

Can't Believe It regarding the bolded, you lost me...
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Dec 24 2020, 4:47 am
The reason I lost you on the MMR causing autism idea, is because the title of the thread was “To all anti-vaxers”. You see, I knew in advance that after all I’ve been exposed to, I wasn’t going to feel better at all by becoming a pro-vaxer, not an option for me. I believe with all my heart the stories of real mothers with real children with real families that have one and even two children that became autistic after MMR. There is a vaccine court that awards money that believes it as well. I’m sorry but that’s undisputed, unless someone wants to disagree with vaccine court that requires proof. Even my husband that believes the MMR is overall good, acknowledges that the MMR has caused autism. We’re in agreement on that, just it’s his least favorite topic and I’m very passionate about it.
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 24 2020, 4:49 am
causemommysaid wrote:
I'm not getting into whether it's safe or not.

I believe it probably is a safe vaccine.

What really bothers me is the gaslighting.

This is a brand new vaccine. As such, there are legitimate reasons to wait a while and see what the effects are.

Those of us who give every vaccine to every baby on time are not idiots who don't understand science just because we want to wait this one out a while. We aren't conspiracy theorists who think big pharma is out to get us.

We just want the time to see the results. If that doesn't work for you, by all means go get vaccinated. I don't ridicule your decision. But have some respect and don't ridicule mine.

Stop insisting you know everything. You don't. Only time will tell, at which point I will happily roll up my sleeve.


congratulations.

you are now an antivaxxer.

anyone who rejects even ONE vaccine is an antivaxxer.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 24 2020, 5:02 am
The world is in a very precarious situation at the moment and for some reason, most of the world isn't trying a conservative approach such as HCQ and supplements. Maybe big pharma has taken over the world or maybe it isn't the cure that we hoped it was. Many people are simply uncomfortable for a couple of weeks but we don't have enough health facilities for those who really do get sick, at least in some places. Right now, NY has hospital beds, BH.
So I don't think that we have the luxury of choice, at least not for people who can't avoid exposure. I can't blame countries who will eventually demand proof of vaccination for entry. They have a right to be more concerned about their health than about my freedom.
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amother
Lemon


 

Post Thu, Dec 24 2020, 5:13 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:


To answer questions about my qualifications over those in medical field, the short answer is that I am getting my information from doctors in the medical field. My doctor that knew that diet affects children’s behavior while other doctors did not, knows that the MMR has caused autism while other doctors do not


How astonishing. Because no one has ever proven a link between MMR vaccines and autism. There's Wakefield's fake study in 1998, and absolutely nothing else. Your doctor must have secret sources of information. If he's so sure, perhaps he could share with the rest of us what studies brought him to this conclusion.
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