To all anti vaxers, I'm alone in this situation

amother

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 8:31 am

There is a vaccine injury compensation program in America that has awarded money in cases where they decided (despite the fact they don’t like to award money) that the autism was caused by MMR. This was usually when there were videos and extensive proof clearly showing the child regressed after MMR.

amother

Khaki

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 8:39 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Unfortunately a certain number of children will develop autism. If symptoms showed around the time that MMR was given, then it looks like causation despite it being unrelated. The only credible research proving a link was debunked when the researcher admitted he falsified data.

amother

Mint

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 8:43 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm afraid theres no use in wasting your time responding to people who will not acknowledge vaccine injury. especially when they start throwing around wakefield's name because that's all they know. anyone who does a bit of research knows there were concerns way before him and after him.

I'll anytime have a conversation with someone who will acknowledge vaccine injury but try to convince me that the benefit of the vaccine is worth the risk. for ex, I gave the mmr before it was mandated because I didn't want my kids to get the measles. it was a risk-benefit analysis which was different before the outbreak and im sharing here not to be attacked or questioned for it but just to show that there are antivaxxers who aren't stubborn and stuck in the mud, who think through their decisions. before the outbreak: no clear and present danger of disease but small chance of risk with vaccine. at beginning of outbreak: small chance of risk with both so I vaxxed my older kids. during height of outbreak: large chance of risk of disease and small chance of risk of vaccine so I vaxxed my younger ones.

amother

Mint

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 8:52 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I want to thank all those posters who made me feel better by bringing in Hashem, mentioning couples that disagree on this topic and a big shout out to Mint who I really feel experienced similar feelings to me. I went from not being sure how to feel better to having my feelings completely neutralized. Thank you so much!

june 13 2019 the day of the re repeal in ny, was a difficult day and all throughout the summer I was so stressed and depressed not knowing what to do or think. I couldnt imagine hashem would make me do something that is so against what I believe is right and good and correct for my kids. as a mother we all want whats best for them and it was mindboggling to me that I needed to choose between their physical health and their social standing or between their physical health and my sb. I was resentful at dh even though it wasnt his 'fault'

by the time september came and the deadline where we had to give the kids the first dose of all the vaccines they needed I had so much time to daven and beg hashem for a way out but I also davened that if I'm forced to shoot them up, to be able to accept it that this is his will. he gives us diffiuclt decisions to make, and I needed to trust that he made me with my knowledge and made dh with his and that he led me to make the decision that needed to be made. other families made different decisions that I knew wouldnt work for us...

amother

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 8:54 am

This thread was never about debating the merits of MMR. I actually had a 14 year very enjoyable hiatus from this topic,

Pro-vaxxers, if you would like to contribute to this discussion here is the OP for you, Feel free to answer.

I’m very very pro-vax, extremely passionate, did so much research when dealing with an issue with one of my children. My husband absolutely refuses to vaccinate our children. He refuses to take the carona vaccine, and I’m very worried about him. I feel so lonely, I don’t know anyone else in this situation.

amother

Cerulean

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 8:57 am

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

Are your children doing okay physically after getting their shots?

amother

Cerulean

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 9:03 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

OP - I understanding the feeling of loneliness when people we love disagree with our strong convictions....practically our identity.

The issue is solved if being 'anti-vaxx' stops being an identity.

I'm concerned about the COVID vaccine. My Dh isn't.

My concern is that is harmful - so if my Dh takes the vaccine, I'll be anxious about him getting sick from it.

Given that my identity isn't wrapped up in a position on the vaccine, loneliness doesn't enter the picture.

amother

Mint

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 9:11 am

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

Are your children doing okay physically after getting their shots?

from what we can tell bh they are doing great. I did do lots of hishtadlus with supplements and spacing as much as we could.
a large concern regarding vaccines is the longterm effects which we cant know but thats where my trust in hashem comes in again. I withheld as long as I could but once I couldnt, I trust that hashem will keep them safe. (and if chv not then that was part his plan too)

amother

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 9:22 am

To clarify, I didn’t say no one should take MMR, I just said that it has caused injury. My children had the MMR even though I knew about vaccine injury when my younger children received. I first tried to break it up, then just vaccinated late when government and big pharma decided that me breaking it up was a threat to society. I understand risk/benefit.

I am just very passionate about acknowledging vaccine injury and carefully doing analysis of each vaccine on a case by case basis, because I can accept that it’s possible that a vaccine can actually cause an injury, and I’m not going to trust a doctor that either doesn’t know or can’t acknowledge that, when there are other doctors that can and do

amother

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 9:32 am

I understand that the reason it’s an issue is because I feel so strongly, almost an identity. But the strength of the conviction would have to do with life experiences. My experience has been solving significant medical problems naturally, when the same doctors that promote the vaccine said impossible, and were wrong. I spent so much time on this, it was literally a full time job. So much feeling went into dealing with opposing doctors, and reading testimonials of others. I plan on having a second career after I retire, in this area. I do believe that Hashem meant this to be a part of me. It’s dealing with my surroundings that is meant to be a nisayon. It’s hard to let go when the knowledge is from experience, not just reading.

amother

Cerulean

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 9:38 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Is it possible to consider that both can be true at the same time? That COVID can be dealt with naturally, AND that the vaccine could be helpful.

Sometimes there are two solutions to the same problem.

amother

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 9:52 am

I can believe that the covid vaccine on the merits can potentially be harmful, but Rav Chaim Kanievsky said to take it, so people are protected. As with any form of bitachon, it takes constant strengthening when it seems to go against nature or logic, or when exposed to a seeming contradiction. I had already made peace with what Rav Chaim Kanievsky said, but when I asked my doc about covid vaccine, and he said NO and especially for women that want to have children, my bitachon went up in smoke for a bit. I felt lonely thinking I am the only one in the world that Hashem chose to be in this situation. I wanted to just hear that someone else experienced the same thing.

amother

Ginger

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 12:47 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

But I heard the ppl who presented the info abt the covid vaccine to R’ Kanievsky omitted important info and didn’t give him all the facts in order to get him to tell everyone to take it. So they basically played around with R’ Kanievsky. I’m not sure if it’s true.

amother

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 12:53 pm

I have no doubt that is 100% true. Even if that's the case, I believe that if Rav Chaim Kanievsky said it's ok, there is a spiritual protection, but not a medical protection.

That is the most I can believe, and I have to rely on it. The other option is fear which is not appealing. I cannot stretch myself to believe that perhaps the covid vaccine is another good way of tackling the same problem.

small bean

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 1:09 pm

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

It's always like that. You can take any rabbinical public endorsement with a grain of salt.

southernbubby

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 1:17 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I would imagine that the Rav was not referring to individuals who were medically prohibited from taking it. One can always ask their own Rav or have someone address the matter to Rav Kanievsky.
As far as natural means of dealing with covid that other posters mentioned, it often doesn't need much treatment but this is an area where people are screaming "white privilege" because alternative medicine is expensive and not available at all in some places. It probably won't become a primary treatment for that reason.

yiddishmom

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 1:18 pm

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

Nu, what's new? This is basically the way it works with every public psak/ kol kora or whatever it is called.

amother

Cerulean

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 1:29 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

If you believe that vaccination is wrong or harmful, then there isn’t anything you can do, other than accept that your husband doesn’t share your beliefs.

The best thing to do is not discuss it with him. Sounds like you are way beyond the point of convincing him to change.

You are not alone. There is a huge community of people who believe as you do.

amother

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 1:30 pm

More scarce than affordability of natural healthcare, is information that it exists and is effective. For example, just making sure your vitamin D level is on the high normal end is effective and cheap. Information such as this is censored in mainstream media.