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How hard is it to become a doctor?
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Dec 27 2020, 11:08 pm
My son wants to be a doctor. he loves medicine and has been learning everything medical he can get his hands on, for his enjoyment. he just loves it. I am encouraging him to go for something easier, like a paramedic or a nurse. I have this image that becoming a doctor is grueling and difficult and he won't see his family while working hard for at least 5-10 years .Realistically how hard is it? Is it attainable? should I encourage or discourage him?

we are charedi BTW so he would have a lot to of learning to catch up on.
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bruriyah




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Dec 27 2020, 11:11 pm
PM me

Signed,
-charedi girl who went to med school
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QueensMama




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Dec 27 2020, 11:12 pm
How old is he?
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Bruria




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Dec 27 2020, 11:13 pm
Encourage him, the world needs more doctors! It's hard but if it's what he wants, he should go for it!
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amother




Ivory
 

Post Sun, Dec 27 2020, 11:16 pm
My BIL is close to the end of the entire journey.
It as tough but now it was all worth it. For him it was a dream.
Life for his wife was really tough. He was missing in action 3 years of residency and years of medical school. There were some quieter years but it was busy.
He was able to find shomer Shabbos residency and fellowship but they are hard to come by. And you can still end up stuck in hospital for Shabbos even with that.
Lots of moving that is out of your control - for school, internship, residency, fellowship. You need a spouse that is onboard and willing. Especially when kids come
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amother




Sapphire
 

Post Mon, Dec 28 2020, 1:32 am
How old is he? The 10 years will pass either you making something of it or you don't. Doctors make ALOT more money than nurses . They are the center of medicine while nurses just follow orders and complete the tasks. If he has the will and the smarts I would encourage him!
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amother




Bisque
 

Post Mon, Dec 28 2020, 1:41 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
My son wants to be a doctor. he loves medicine and has been learning everything medical he can get his hands on, for his enjoyment. he just loves it. I am encouraging him to go for something easier, like a paramedic or a nurse. I have this image that becoming a doctor is grueling and difficult and he won't see his family while working hard for at least 5-10 years .Realistically how hard is it? Is it attainable? should I encourage or discourage him?

we are charedi BTW so he would have a lot to of learning to catch up on.


A doctor is WAY more prestigious than being a paramedic or a nurse. If medicine is one's passion, he will not find paramedic fulfilling in the same way.

Most men in business work very, very hard. My husband is an electrician and when he started out, he worked all hours and I don't see him on Sundays. I know a doctor is works much harder and much longer hours, but I'm so, so proud of my husband, and I imagine a good wife would be so, so proud of her doctor husband.

Make sure he gets a super-supportive wife who understands his passion and the effort this will entail.

Also, make sure your son has the stamina. It is grueling. If he's lazy in any way, it's not for him (but neither is nursing or paramedic in that case).

Like PP said, - the 10 years are going to pass anyway. He may as well go for it!
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amother




Pink
 

Post Mon, Dec 28 2020, 2:00 am
amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:
How old is he? The 10 years will pass either you making something of it or you don't. Doctors make ALOT more money than nurses . They are the center of medicine while nurses just follow orders and complete the tasks. If he has the will and the smarts I would encourage him!

That's how I always tried to see it.
I'll be 30 one day whether I did xyz or not. May as well do it.
My goals weren't quite so lofty but the principle remains the same.
When he turns 30 he'll regret not having tried it.
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essie14




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Dec 28 2020, 2:19 am
I have several friends (male and female) who are doctors.
One friend went to nursing school first because everyone discouraged her ("frum women don't go to medical school"). She was not happy working as a nurse, so after all that schooling, she went back to medical school and finally became a doctor.
If this is his passion, encourage him.
Another good friend only ended up meeting her husband at the end of her residency.
By the time she married and had kids, she was past the worst part and now she actually has a flexible schedule and sees her family a lot.
She would have been devastated to give up her dream and still have been single all those years.
You never know what life will bring. I say to always pursue your dreams.
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Teomima




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Dec 28 2020, 2:48 am
amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:
How old is he? The 10 years will pass either you making something of it or you don't. Doctors make ALOT more money than nurses . They are the center of medicine while nurses just follow orders and complete the tasks. If he has the will and the smarts I would encourage him!

Not the point of the post but I just want to point out you are highly underestimating nurses and all they do.
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amother




Sapphire
 

Post Mon, Dec 28 2020, 3:39 am
Teomima wrote:
Not the point of the post but I just want to point out you are highly underestimating nurses and all they do.


I am a nurse so I was talking from experience. Someone who wants to be diagnosing and prescribing will not be happy as a nurse.
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amother




Chocolate
 

Post Mon, Dec 28 2020, 6:31 am
My brother went to med school when he was already married and working in a kodesh related field. I think he as able to use his yeshiva learning as a BA (wtvr that is called - BTL maybe?) and only had to do a couple of years of undergrad to catch up on science related classes. He went to (chabad) schools/yeshivos that only taught kodesh btw, never had a formal maths of science lesson in his life before he went to college. Although he learnt to read english at home, and our family are all big readers.

He got into a top medical school (in a city with a huge Jewish community) and is now doing his residency. His wife obviously is very supportive of him, I don't think he could do it otherwise. I think summers are a bit quieter in med school. (he also worked while in medical school though) They have moved once, not a crazy amount. He is commuting about 45 minutes to do his residency so his family don't have to move.

If your son starts this journey while still young and single it will be much easier.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Dec 28 2020, 6:59 am
OP, another option is PA.
I would reach out to frum doctors you know. If he's old enough, he should be talking to them too. Hatzlacha!
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amother




Green
 

Post Mon, Dec 28 2020, 7:12 am
It is very very hard. Financially it isn't worth it unless your family is very wealthy and can pay his way through med school and residency (residency pays a stipend but not enough to live on), he manages to get a full scholarship (which is rare), or after residency he signs up to work for several years in an underserved area and gets tuition reimbursement for that service). Also, US army will pay tuition in exchange for service, and I have one friend who did that.

I would say he shouldn't get married until his residency is almost over - it isn't fair to drag a wife and kids into that (unless she is from a super wealthy family who offers to support them through his training).

My husband is a very (VERY) prominent physician. Not to brag, but he went to an IVY league med school and is chairman of a large hospital department.

We are both from poor families and married young. I supported him through med school and residency. It was very hard. I was completely a single mother when my older kids were young and their relationship with their Dad was affected forever by him not being around during those formative years.

We almost divorced several times. I told my own daughter that if she decided to become a doctor she needs to get through school first before marriage (same for my sons). If she ever decided to marry a "pre-med" student I wouldn't pay for nor support such a marriage. Luckily she married an IT guy who will end up making more than my husband with only a bachelor's degree.

And yes, we are still paying back my husband's student loans 20 years later.

Doctors make no money anymore - they are all pressured to become employees of hospital networks on a salary set by hospital executives with MBA's at most who make more than any doctors on staff could ever dream of. Doctors have mostly been forced out of private practice. Those who remain have trouble getting new patient referrals because the hospitals all refer to in network doctors and either reward or ding the in network doctors that work for the hospital if they refer patients in-network or not.
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amother




Hotpink
 

Post Mon, Dec 28 2020, 7:18 am
DH is a Dr.

Definitely a reasonable goal.
But be aware of the following

1. Have frum advice re specialties. DH was BT during residency and probably would not have chosen the way he did with a frum lifestyle to consider.
2. During med school, residency, fellowship pay is limited and hours are long (though new rules mean not quite as long).
3) it's expensive. Dh's loans are in 6 figures.
4) it will be a lot on his wife during training and potentially during working depending on specialty.
5) may require major moves.
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amother




Babyblue
 

Post Mon, Dec 28 2020, 10:00 am
Is your son extremely smart, energetic and motivated?
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bruriyah




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Dec 28 2020, 10:45 am
OP-my approach would be to seek advice firsthand from ppl who did it, not כלי שני type of advice from your friends neighbors cousin

The key points are:
-Does he have what it take, as far as intellectual capabilities, stamina, drive passion?
-is this what he wants?

If yes, go for it. The rest will fall into place.
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elsily




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Dec 28 2020, 10:50 am
I would encourage him to look into NP and PA as well. These are careers that require rigorous training but not as much as MD and have potentially more flexibility. If shadowing is an option, he should look into that. He may find that he likes the role of those careers more than MD.
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amother




Royalblue
 

Post Mon, Dec 28 2020, 10:55 am
There was an informative article about frum doctors in this past week's Mishpacha focusing on the issue of managing residencies while being shomer shabbos. Worth a read, op.
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amother




White
 

Post Mon, Dec 28 2020, 10:57 am
Do not discourage him from becoming a doctor! I have two friends whose parents talked them out of becoming doctors. They ended up choosing other professions, but they regret that they didn't become doctors and always talk about what their lives would have been like had they become doctors.

There is nothing like being a doctor. A PA just cant compare. Doctors play such an important leadership role. And frum doctors are such an asset to our community. Just during covid we saw how many doctors stepped up to the plate and led our communities during the crisis

The only thing I will say is that he should start the journey as soon as possible, right after high school. Some men learn in kollel for 10 years and then want to start medical school, which is really hard at that point
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