How hard is it to become a doctor?

amother

Plum

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 8:35 pm

amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:

Mishpacha has an article this past week about shomer shabbos residencies. It’s very hard to find and difficult to work out. The article was very informative

I didnt read the article, can someone post it here please?
I want to point out that not everyone seeks out shomer shabbos residencies.

amother

Pearl

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 8:42 pm

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

I didnt read the article, can someone post it here please?
I want to point out that not everyone seeks out shomer shabbos residencies.

And just a note, as I’ve said on many threads before: don’t go to medical school assuming you’ll get a shomer Shabbat residency. Most specialties don’t even have them, and if they do exist, they are few and far between. Assume your son WILL be working on Shabbat/chagim/etc.

amother

Copper

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 9:19 pm

Med school is manageable with good study habits, work ethic, organizational skills and grit. Aside from that, it's just time until a real job is had 7-10 yrs down the road.

It's way easier when single, for sure. (Don't recommend he date until after med school and residency...it's just easier that way).

There is no way to be prepared for the less glamorous side of medicine such as paperwork, electronic charting and trying to keep above water in the ever changing environment of what insurance dictates is reimbursable.

A lot of doctors suffer burn out and depression. Especially now, under the circumstances of COVID.

amother

Plum

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 10:06 pm

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

Is it really easier?
I feel like a lot of students get burnt out an depressed from no social life and the isolation.

Isn't having a built in social life (a family) easier?
(Obviously we are talking about having a supportive spouse 100% of the way)

Also, considering undergrad is 4 years and med school is 4 years and residency is 4 years not including any fellowships.. of they start at 18, you dont recommend dating until their 30?

amother

Plum

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 10:08 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

That's why I wrote some people don't even Try for them

amother

Copper

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 10:21 pm

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

Is it really easier?
I feel like a lot of students get burnt out an depressed from no social life and the isolation.

Doesn't need to be a hermit. Friends are good.

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

Isn't having a built in social life (a family) easier?
(Obviously we are talking about having a supportive spouse 100% of the way)

More responsibility for the spouse in med school to deal with besides med school and more guilt also knowing that there is a spouse at home dealing with the kids. And also more mouths to feed and minimal income. And a building debt.

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

Also, considering undergrad is 4 years and med school is 4 years and residency is 4 years not including any fellowships.. of they start at 18, you don't recommend dating until their 30?

Nope. Not really. Dating in frum circles is for marriage. So wouldn't recommend getting married during med school or residency. Plenty of people do it. It's just really hard.

amother

Amber

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 10:28 pm

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

Nope. Not really. Dating in frum circles is for marriage. So wouldn't recommend getting married during med school or residency. Plenty of people do it. It's just really hard.

I’m sure you’re very much basing this on your own experiences and opinions. My husband experience has been the exact opposite of what u describe. There is not only one way. My husband has a chat of frum guys all in school with kids. Yes some definitely do struggle, my husband tells me often how he would never be able to pull this off single without the support system of a wife and a family making this worth fighting for ...

amother

Plum

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 10:35 pm

amother [ Amber ] wrote:

Thats exactly my point.
I agree with you and I disagree with copper.

So I guess everyone has to decide what they want in life, and if they want do it with a family or without, and you can do is support their dreams.

amother

Lilac

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 10:38 pm

DH wanted to go to med school but I couldn’t stomach it so he went for physical therapy, which is a doctorate. It was 3 grueling years (not including undergrad) but he loves his work and there is so much room for growth. Bh he’s doing very well today and he’s currently doing business coaching for a doctor who is just a few years out of med school and is completely burnt out; DH is teaching him the business side and helping him move into a more lucrative field of medicine from a business standpoint. Think long and hard...

bruriyah

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 12:00 am

I would absolutely not recommend waiting till the end of residency to start dating. Who does that?? Putting your life on hold for a decade is a total exaggeration. There are busy times, less busy times, and you can create breaks for yourself along the way. Again, OP, speak to ppl who did this.

bruriyah

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 12:03 am

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

Nope. Not really. Dating in frum circles is for marriage. So wouldn't recommend getting married during med school or residency. Plenty of people do it. It's just really hard.

Who does this?? Never heard of such a thing.

PinkFridge

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 7:12 am

Raisin wrote:

I don't know, I feel like my physio is just as knowledgeable as many of the drs I have met.

This is common. A friend's husband was thinking of law school, went to a real estate business instead, and regularly has lawyers consult him on certain nekudos. People become expert in their fields.
The point is, PT could be a fine option. Just as I added PA to a list earlier. But if someone wants the full MD, s/he should go for it.

amother

Olive

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 8:19 am

It's long and difficult, and you need a supportive spouse if you are married. OP, where do you live? In Israel, getting into medical school is very competitive. He'll need amazing psychometric scores. On the upside, he won't be saddled with debt.

In the US, the big issue is cost. Would he consider going to school in Canada or Europe? Hard to get in if you're not local, but you can get a world class degree for a fraction of the price. (The upside is that some specialties in the US are very lucrative, and if he has a business mind, he can really make money.)

If this is what he wants, and he's able to make up the material he's missing, I say go for it.

bruriyah

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 10:11 am

amother [ Olive ] wrote:

Just so you know, getting into medical school in the US is not any easier than Israel, maybe harder. The MCAT is at least the equivalent of the psychometric exams. Also, cost is really not a big deal because the average doctor in the US makes enough to pay back their loans and still live a very comfortable life. The issue really boils down to 2 things only (I think I mentioned this before)

1. Does he have the capacity to do it? Brains+drive
2. Is this what he wants?

If the answer to those 2 questions is yes, he should do it. Everything else is commentary.

What outsiders seem to miss is that ppl who love medicine enjoy then journey!

Last edited by bruriyah on Tue, Dec 29 2020, 10:32 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Plum

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 10:46 am

PinkFridge wrote:

For someone who wants to he come a neurosurgeon, or a Interventional radiologist or a emergency room physician, or a oncologist, PT really really isn't a fine option. I can't stress this enough. Yes, it's a long, hard, difficult journey, but you can't pretend being a PT is in the same league. If this is someone's dream, they have the brains and the grit, go for it.

Were not talking about people who want to go to med school for the prestige and the $$, were talking about people who genuinely love the field.

amother

Honeydew

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 10:52 am

There are so many different answers, but I want to point out that so many wives need to work very hard to help support their families while their husbands work long hours too just to make ends meet.

So, I dont think the fact that he has to work very long hours the first 10 years should be a deterrent. Many ppl have to work long hours and dont have an end"" . If he wants do it, he should, and at least after years of grueling work, he can hopefully, have a better schedule.

Nothing is guaranteed, and many careers have loans, but I have many relatives who worked grueling hours the first 10 years as a doctor etc and then were doing well financially with more "normal" hrs while my dad(not a dr) worked long hours for more than 10 years trying to make ends meet.

I also have a friend whose dh is a dr. He worked in a hospital 3 days a week. Then, had a private practice 2 days a week. But, then was successful, so now works completely in his private practice. Only hashem decides who will do well in private practice just like in every field. Like, some lawyers are not successful.

Some drs do very well, some might not be doing as well, but only hashem will decide who will make a lot of money in the end, but many ppl have to work long hrs to support their families. I'd say "go for it". What's his alternative?

amother

Natural

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 11:04 am

Being a Dr was always my dream but it isn't the typical career path for a frum woman and my parents had a cow just at the mention of it. So I got married and had several kids and I know there's no way I can make it happen now. B"h I have a beautiful family but the pain of an unfulfilled dream is real. I wish I would've had the support of a parent ten years ago to make it work.
If this is something your son really wants and he has what it takes, then support him wholeheartedly and don't push him towards a second best choice

amother

Khaki

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 12:17 pm

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

You made the right decision. I know many people who are burned out and unhappy as physicians and would not want their kids going for it.