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Stopping keeping chalav yisroel?
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tante_feige




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 31 2020, 3:33 pm
CY is halacha, the question is what qualifies. For people who hold by the Iggros Moshe, drinking milk that meets his criteria is pashut CY, and not a leniency. His teshuva literally says "Chalav Yisrael he."

(Not replying to comments. Not looking to start a flame war.)
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heidi




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 31 2020, 4:30 pm
LovesHashem wrote:
Uh yeah. You only need to do hataras nedarim if you are starting to eat cholov Stam.

Also not sure why I got the hug. Ask any man this is like basic halacha. It's sad that it's so twisted and misunderstood.

Even for things that are chumras if you are adding and not taking away from your observance why would you need to do an annulment of vows?

And I grew up eating cholov Stam because I grew up in one of those places that got cholov Yisroel milk once every couple weeks. And rarely got cheese or anything else in.

No.
All milk in America is חלב ישראל according to Rav Moshe Feinstein, based on USDA guidelines and ידיעה כראיה.
From what I understand chalav stam is a made up concept.
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LovesHashem




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 31 2020, 4:33 pm
heidi wrote:
No.
All milk in America is חלב ישראל according to Rav Moshe Feinstein, based on USDA guidelines and ידיעה כראיה.
From what I understand chalav stam is a made up concept.


Halachically you need a Jew to watch over the process. Relying on government regulations is Bideieved. It's not the same. It may be okay if you need to but it's better not to rely on a nonjewish government's food regulations when the halacha calls for a Jew to watch over the process.

That's how I learned it.

Especially if one lives in Israel there's no reason to buy products from other countries and rely on a leniency.
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amother




Hotpink
 

Post Thu, Dec 31 2020, 9:35 pm
LovesHashem wrote:
Uh yeah. You only need to do hataras nedarim if you are starting to eat cholov Stam.

Also not sure why I got the hug. Ask any man this is like basic halacha. It's sad that it's so twisted and misunderstood.

Even for things that are chumras if you are adding and not taking away from your observance why would you need to do an annulment of vows?

And I grew up eating cholov Stam because I grew up in one of those places that got cholov Yisroel milk once every couple weeks. And rarely got cheese or anything else in.

I mean you seem to be saying eating chalav Yisrael is not a chumra and just basic halacha, but if so, why should I need hataras nedarim, isn't hataras nedarim for extras that no longer want to do? If it really is basic halacha and chalav Stam is a leniency, I would say, should just be ok, now you can be lenient because of your situation, but I think would only need hataras nedarim if it's considered a chumra.

Like let's say I used a to keep a certain halacha and now Rav tells me because of my situation, I can rely on a leniency, would I then need hataras nedarim? (I don't think so, so it must be that eating chalav Yisrael is a chumra and not basic halacha)
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Dec 31 2020, 10:18 pm
We do live in a place, for nearly a decade where we have manage to keep CY and PY where dairy orders come in every few months. We actually do not use any dairy milk but do buy cheese yogurt cottage cheese etc. I am so tired of the lack of variety, same old same old, we have other things going on and want to focus on working on the areas of our lives that need improvement. Emotional health matters and I feel that more options for foods would relieve some stresses in our home. It is not about saving money, it is about enjoying and having variety. Balance and happiness in the home. There is more to it than this but just saying, its complicated. Want to work on our avodas Hashem in a healthy balanced way. Throw tomatoes at me. (Actually I prefer if you don't)
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LovesHashem




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Jan 01 2021, 4:41 am
amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:
I mean you seem to be saying eating chalav Yisrael is not a chumra and just basic halacha, but if so, why should I need hataras nedarim, isn't hataras nedarim for extras that no longer want to do? If it really is basic halacha and chalav Stam is a leniency, I would say, should just be ok, now you can be lenient because of your situation, but I think would only need hataras nedarim if it's considered a chumra.

Like let's say I used a to keep a certain halacha and now Rav tells me because of my situation, I can rely on a leniency, would I then need hataras nedarim? (I don't think so, so it must be that eating chalav Yisrael is a chumra and not basic halacha)


I don't know. I know I asked a Rav because I missed old foods I grew up with and he explained that yes it would need an annulment of vows and there's no reason to rely on a leniency.
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LovesHashem




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Jan 01 2021, 4:42 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
We do live in a place, for nearly a decade where we have manage to keep CY and PY where dairy orders come in every few months. We actually do not use any dairy milk but do buy cheese yogurt cottage cheese etc. I am so tired of the lack of variety, same old same old, we have other things going on and want to focus on working on the areas of our lives that need improvement. Emotional health matters and I feel that more options for foods would relieve some stresses in our home. It is not about saving money, it is about enjoying and having variety. Balance and happiness in the home. There is more to it than this but just saying, its complicated. Want to work on our avodas Hashem in a healthy balanced way. Throw tomatoes at me. (Actually I prefer if you don't)


That's hard. I grew up in a place like that and very few kept it. We did not. I don't think I would either.

Leniences exist for a reason. The reason shouldn't be because I feel like it, but living in a place where it's difficult it was good reason to rely on a leniency.
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Jan 05 2021, 6:45 pm
What rav to speak to regarding this? Does this need to be done in front of 3 men as in "over bar mitzvah shomer shabbos jews" or 3 men, as in a beis din of "3 rabbis"
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Frumme




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Jan 05 2021, 8:02 pm
tante_feige wrote:
CY is halacha, the question is what qualifies. For people who hold by the Iggros Moshe, drinking milk that meets his criteria is pashut CY, and not a leniency. His teshuva literally says "Chalav Yisrael he."

(Not replying to comments. Not looking to start a flame war.)


Except that today many cows undergo a common surgery (for a hernia, I believe) that disqualifies them from being kosher. A cow not fit for shechita is also not fit for milking. There is more to CY than just a Jew watching cows being milked (or in Rabbi Feinstein's case, the government watching them being milked). There is a question to as if the milk from the treif cows is batul or not... You have to ask your LOR.
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Jan 06 2021, 12:17 am
Bump.

Anyone care to share the name of a rav who helped them with this/has experience with this. I know their are those who will say "no absolutely not, you need to keep CY" and there are those who say "no biggie annull the vow and go for it" but I really want a rav who can help me and my family gain clarity and make the right decision for our families needs.
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tinyspark




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jan 06 2021, 3:25 am
Of course you need to speak with your rav but its important to differentiate between pas Yisrael and color Yisrael. Pas Yisrael is a chumra that when you don't have it in your city you can rely on this leniency. Cholov Yisrael is stricter , and everyone is using a leniency ,chalav stam, as regular and thinking chalav Yisrael is a chumra when in fact it says how important cholov Yisrael and is more involving then baking a piece of bread. Reb Moshe decried the fact that people used his leniency as the norm
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LovesHashem




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jan 06 2021, 4:04 am
OP ask your Rav. Do you not have a Rav?
A think an annulment of vows just need to be made before three God fearing jews.
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Chickensoupprof




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jan 06 2021, 4:59 am
Here in the Netherlands most yekkes who are orthodox and everything always kept cholov stam basically. I guess the rebbeim did this there is a whole story literally most of the Jews and some rabbis keep here Cholov Stam.
About CY here, there is one company that is making CY milk, sent it to Antwerp and sell there, the Dutch kosher shops in Amsterdam need to buy it from Antwerp so milk is more expensive in the Netherlands then in Antwerp while the factory is in the Netherlands. This is about the fresh milk the longlasting milk is the same price.
Ok, then the cheese, we use CY cheese we order a wheel of cheese every few months for 50 euro. In one kosher shop, they sell non-CY cheese and everyone knows that but there is no animal rennet... however this is for a small group of Dutch Jews who hold this. Because it is not a specific Dutch thing to keep CY I try to keep it as much as possible I use longlasting CY milk with and cheese I'm not a dairy person my husband is only a cheese person. De rabbi's of here basically say if you live in a place where you can't get CY you can use the normal supermarket brand.
Now I go to Moshe Feinstein, I've been told by several rabbi's Moshe Feinstein zt'l hold on this too. When you are in a place where you can get CY milk easily you should hold on this.
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amother




Emerald
 

Post Wed, Jan 06 2021, 5:44 am
LovesHashem wrote:
Uh yeah. You only need to do hataras nedarim if you are starting to eat cholov Stam.

Also not sure why I got the hug. Ask any man this is like basic halacha. It's sad that it's so twisted and misunderstood.

Even for things that are chumras if you are adding and not taking away from your observance why would you need to do an annulment of vows?

And I grew up eating cholov Stam because I grew up in one of those places that got cholov Yisroel milk once every couple weeks. And rarely got cheese or anything else in.

Because having a Y chromosome = expert.
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