Rabbonim against the Covid vaccine

FranticFrummie

Fri, Jan 01 2021, 7:41 am

https://www.rodefshalom613.org....._pb2o (The website is maintained by a guy with a lot of conspiracy theories, and he collects them to back up his ideas.)

Has anyone else seen this? It's too long to cut and paste.

Satmar, Breslov, Mir, Eidah Chareidis, and other rabbis issued this warning that it is a serious prohibition to get the vaccine against corona.

Basically, the opinion is that until the government can 100% guarantee without a doubt that NO ONE will ever have an adverse effect from the vaccine, then NO ONE should get it. EVER.

Nothing in life is 100% safe! Crossing the street could get you killed. Should we never walk anywhere?

I find this all extremely disturbing. With all the talk about Charedim being "super spreaders", having all of these Charedi rabbonim putting out notices to their kehillah warning them against the vaccine seems problematic, at best. Let's admit it, the optics are not great.

amother

Turquoise

Fri, Jan 01 2021, 7:49 am

Seriously don't let this bother you. The chareidi opinion is as colorful as that of any other society. At this point, close to a year in, everybody has their opinion and it won't change. Chariedim are not responsible for the optics just because some people have other opinions. That is not how chilul hashem works. In any case these communities are mostly treating their patients in the community anyways. I live among chareidim, some are constantly in and out of bidud with one child or the other and some doing otherwise. This has nothing to do with chareidim per say.
Gut shabbos.

FranticFrummie

Fri, Jan 01 2021, 7:59 am

Like it or not, leaders DO represent us in the eyes of others.

If you are a Democrat, Trump represents everything that is wrong with Republicans.

If you are a Hindu, the Pope represents everything that is wrong with Catholics.

If you are Chassidish, your Rebbe represents everything that the media says about Chassidim.

That's what I mean by "optics".

Not only that, IMHO I think it's dangerous, because there are many people out there who could benefit from the vaccine, but because of the bubble they live in, or the way they were raised, or the esteem they have for their Rebbe, or just plain fear of going against the tide - they will not get the protection they could have.

If your Rebbe's word is law, you don't really have free will about this, do you?

DrMom

Fri, Jan 01 2021, 8:00 am

Don't they represent some of the communities who held mega-super-spreader weddings without any SD or masks? Who sent boys to packed yeshivot and they all got infected? Those activities weren't safe, but they did them anyway.

They don't seem like the right people to lecture anybody on covid-related safety and risk assessment.

amother

Chartreuse

Fri, Jan 01 2021, 8:21 am

I posted that link on the “are you natural minded” vaccine thread yesterday.
I think that article is a mind opener. I sincerely dont understand how so many people are putting their trust in a vaccine that is so so new and untested. However, if that’s what you believe, than I pray that you stay safe and healthy. My question is: Why can’t you respect a Doctors questioning the vaccines validity? Why are you all so scared of pushback. There’s a saying “sheker ein raglayim”, meaning falsehood has no legs, it can’t stand.
If the vaccine is good, time will tell. If there’s more adverse effects than positive benefits, time will tell that too.
Let people speak their truths. You do as you believe and follow who you want to follow.
I agree with every word in that article and encourage others to just open their ears and listen.

amother

Babyblue

Fri, Jan 01 2021, 8:39 am

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

Further more, here’s a Shiur from R Asher Weiss explaining how he reaches that conclusion:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=.....tu.be

Rav Asher Weiss is an extrmely respected posek and talmid chacham. This shiur is over an hour long. Can you tell me in summary, is he for or against the vaccine?

amother

Aqua

Fri, Jan 01 2021, 8:40 am

FF, point number one:
Take kol korehs with ten grains of salt.

I looked at it.
For example,
Who is Rav CZ Schneider, "of the rabbonim of mir"?
A maggid shiur?
He is not a RY or maggid shiur I've ever heard of (definitely not of Americans), my dh was in the Mir for over a decade.
For all you know he is someone choshuv who learns there.

And for every rov who (supposedly?) Said not to get it, you'll find others who will say to get it...

ETA: I asked my dh if he's heard of rav schneider. He said he has, he's very choshuv, but he's not on the hanhala or a spokesperson of the mir at all.

So as you see, the kol koreh was misleading

Edited to fix typos and autocorrect, and to add last piece of info.

amother

Aubergine

Fri, Jan 01 2021, 9:06 am

FF, just like there is dr's split opinions on this so too rabbis. Even if you say for the high risk is worth it, to take a medicine that is NOT YET APPROVED because it has not gone through all the scientific studies YET, for a very low risk person may indeed be against halacha. Pfizer & Moderna have both said they DO NOT KNOW yet IF it will curb transmission or just protect the user.

In any case, as you see people are already putting out fights & a black market of stolen vaccines, this does not seem to be a problem yet that some people will WAIT. No one said the opinion cannot change at a later date.

Additionally, some may faster give a go ahead on the other companies vaccines that are not mrna.

In any case take ALL public psaks on medicine with a huge grain of salt. If you do not ask yourself, you cannot just take someone elses say so. Each medical situation is very individual. And terribly, there is too many times manipulation happens when it is done by "askanim".

I guarantee by rabbanim on both sides there are case by case exceptions to their position.

amother

Babyblue

Fri, Jan 01 2021, 9:09 am

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

FF, duke number one:
Take kol korehs with ten grains of salt.

I looked at it.
For example,
Who is Rav CZ Schneider, "of the rabbonim of mir"?
Done maggid shiur?
He is not a RY or maggid shiur I've ever heard of (definitely not of Americans), my dh was in the Mir fire over a decade.
For all you know he is someone choshuv who learns there.

And for every rov who (supposedly?) Said not to get it, you'll find others who will say to get it...

Totally agree. These people are basically unknown.
There have been too many stories of rabonim who say that their names were used without permission on kol korehs. Before going into rabbonus, my relative was advised by his Rosh yeshiva never to sign these kol korehs. Once you give your name you never know what they may add or delete.
Ami magazine wrote a whole piece about the new vaccine. They wrote in an addendum that Rav Shmuel Kamenetzky's name appeared on the letter advising against the vaccine, but Rav Shmuel came out publicly and denied that he had signed it. If the people who put out the kol koreh purposely forged his signature, it says a lot about the letter itself and the people behind it.

amother

Saddlebrown

Fri, Jan 01 2021, 9:17 am

amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:

Rav Asher Weiss is an extrmely respected posek and talmid chacham. This shiur is over an hour long. Can you tell me in summary, is he for or against the vaccine?

He is for the vaccine and has personally gotten it already

PinkFridge

Fri, Jan 01 2021, 9:36 am

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

Yes. I just heard Rabbi Willig say this, on the recent YU event with R' Dr. Glatt: there was a pashkevil along those lines with 5 rabbinic signatories. And these were apparently prominent names. He wasn't going to name 4 of them but did name one because that one has clearly gone on record saying something very different. (I think it was implicit that there's a fair chance the other names were co-opted too.) The one rav was Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky, shlita, who did NOT come out against the vaccine but said consult and listen to your doctors.

Take them with a truckload of salt. It's a chaval. When you say yekum purkan (and even if you don't go to shul you can say the first) have a lot of kavana that our leaders not be subject to such bizayon.

PinkFridge

Fri, Jan 01 2021, 9:38 am

BTW, I am not hearing rabbanim be anti or scare-mongering. The most I'm hearing is that low-risk people, or people who've had it, are not irresponsible if they follow shev v'al taase, I.e. sit and don't do anything, wait it out a bit and see. Which is not the same as DON'T GET IT!!!!!! or the equivalent.

avrahamama

Fri, Jan 01 2021, 9:44 am

I've said it before but I like Rabbi (and Dr.) Tatz approach. Take it if covid is a risk to you. Or if you are in healthcare and you might pose a risk to the population you serve. If you are young and healthy and not overly exposed to a vulnerable population (you dont work in a nursing home, etc) you can be cautious about taking it.

A hatzala member in our kehilla asked our Rav if he should take it, as right now it's only being offered to healthcare workers. Our rav said "yes take it and have the kavanah that you are doing this l'shem shamayim"

sky

Fri, Jan 01 2021, 10:00 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

https://www.rodefshalom613.org/2020/12/why-rabbis-are-alarmed-by-the-covid-19-vaccine/?fbclid=IwAR2j0wtyPTin7YRl20nALlEgPeD63GZLiZAqyTYv1xVoVWTHuMu0bs_pb2o (The website is maintained by a guy with a lot of conspiracy theories, and he collects them to back up his ideas.)

Has anyone else seen this? It's too long to cut and paste.

Satmar, Breslov, Mir, Eidah Chareidis, and other rabbis issued this warning that it is a serious prohibition to get the vaccine against corona.

Basically, the opinion is that until the government can 100% guarantee without a doubt that NO ONE will ever have an adverse effect from the vaccine, then NO ONE should get it. EVER.

Nothing in life is 100% safe! Crossing the street could get you killed. Should we never walk anywhere?

I find this all extremely disturbing. With all the talk about Charedim being "super spreaders", having all of these Charedi rabbonim putting out notices to their kehillah warning them against the vaccine seems problematic, at best. Let's admit it, the optics are not great.

didn’t the head of the eida chareidis get the shot publicly?

Also you have to take everything you read online with a grain of salt.
There is a gadol in America who is anti vaccine. There was a letter in his name going around saying not to vaccinate. Everyone was saying not to in his name. He came out with a statement saying it was forged and he never made an official statement for or against the shot.