Scared for Moshiach - Hilchos Tumah and Tahara

amother

Blue

Sun, Jan 03 2021, 2:14 am

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

From Sanhedrin 99a:
דאמר שמואל אין בין העולם הזה לימות המשיח אלא שעבוד מלכיות בלבד
Shmuel says: The difference between this world and the messianic era is only with regard to servitude to foreign kingdoms alone, as they will leave Eretz Yisrael.

Will the avoda in the Mikdash be reinstated? We've been davening for that. But yeah, my guess is that the average person will try to have as little interaction with the Mikdash as possible, and we'll go about life happily tamei 99 percent of the time.

I agree with the first part of your post, this is the source we have, we don't know how it will be like beyond that.

But the second part - the Beit Hamikdash is supposed to be an incredible source of closeness to Hashem. Why would one forgo that and minimize interaction? The halachot can be learned and most of the time it would mean being more careful while niddah and regarding relations and maybe going to the mikvah more times. I once visited on Har Habayit - so dh and I had to abstain and both of us go to the mikvah before going up. We consulted with a Rav who is experienced with it about all the relevant halachot and about which areas are permitted to go to (I know, a lot of rabbanim don't permit going but there are those that do). Even for Har Habayit alone without the Mikdash it was definitely worth the effort. Most kinds of tumah can be fixed by mikvah. And for tumat meit which we can't fix today, there will be the parah adumah again. For the 3 regalim all the men would have to go up anyway.

amother

Violet

Sun, Jan 03 2021, 2:31 am

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

I have great respect for anyone who goes up to the הר הבית, and there is something sad in the way most of us don't really mourn the loss of the Mikdash.

All I meant was that even with a rebuilt בית המקדש, it's not likely to be a part of daily life for the vast majority of Jews. Kohanim will have lots of adjusting to do, but most of us will probably live our lives only interacting with the Mikdash a few times a year. We won't be constantly worrying about staying טהור.

(I will admit that part of me dreads spending Sukkos home alone with the girls while dh and the boys are in Yerushalayim. Imagine how awful it will be. No point in going to shul, there probably won't be a minyan. Will families go to the effort of building a sukkah for women who don't have a chiyyuv to sit in it? Shavuos is too short to matter much, and I guess we'll have to figure out how to stay in Yerushalayim to eat the קורבן פסח. Oh well, we'll deal with those problems when we get to them.)

amother

Blue

Sun, Jan 03 2021, 5:18 am

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

(I will admit that part of me dreads spending Sukkos home alone with the girls while dh and the boys are in Yerushalayim. Imagine how awful it will be. No point in going to shul, there probably won't be a minyan. Will families go to the effort of building a sukkah for women who don't have a chiyyuv to sit in it? Shavuos is too short to matter much, and I guess we'll have to figure out how to stay in Yerushalayim to eat the קורבן פסח. Oh well, we'll deal with those problems when we get to them.)

While women did/will not bring the korban chagiga and were/are not obligated, the way I understand it, there is no obstacle for wives and daughters to come along with dh and ds's to Yerushalayim. I think it was often done that way in the days of the Mikdash. Think of Chana who went to the Mishkan in Shilo with her husband Elkana and her co-wife Pnina. If tahor, women can also eat from the korban chagiga. If not - what about the rest of the meal?
And Sukkot - we assume that in the days of Moshiach people have cars. So, after bringing the korban, one could drive home during chol hamo'ed. Chagim are only 1 day in EY not 2 like in chu"l. Unless in the times of Moshiach EY will become much larger, there is no place today that takes more than 4 hours to drive to Jerusalem. And that includes the Golan Heights and Eilat. From most other places where the majority of people live today, it is 1-2 hours drive.

amother

Violet

Sun, Jan 03 2021, 5:44 am

First, logistics. How many cars can the roads handle? How many trains can you run? Realistically, some men will travel early to get there on time, and be away from home for a while. In order to bring all the korbanot on time, you're going to have to streamline the process, and the best way to do that is to limit the number of עולי רגל. A lot of women are going to be left home.

We live pretty close to Yerushalayim, so I imagine that the menfolk will go for the first day and drive home in horrific traffic. The rest of the week will be totally anticlimactic for them.

Of course women CAN go, but it's depressing to contemplate that Hashem opens His "house" and doesn't invite women. Imagine if someone were to say to my husband, "I'm making a party. You must come, no excuses, and please stay until the very end, because I can't bear it when you leave." Then he turns to me and says, "You can come if you want." Thanks, I'll stay home with a good book.

For now, the rejection implicit in the chagim is only theoretical. With a Mikdash, it will be in our faces.

Whatever. We'll deal when we have to.

amother

Blue

Sun, Jan 03 2021, 7:07 am

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

1) Regarding the logistics - Meron on Lag Ba'Omer hosted about half a million people every year before Corona. And what about Uman on Rosh Hashana. Both of those without even trying very much for special infrastructure. So Beit Hamikdash will have more people attending and we'll need some new 16 lane highways to Jerusalem and an extra few railway lines. Of all the miracles of Moshiach's time I'd think those are the smallest and easiest. It could be done today if one could get the budget.

2. Beit Hamikdash actually had a women's section. The concept was introduced already in Shlomo Hamelech's time. It will be crowded but so will be the rest of Beit Hamikdash. Imagine yourself on the balcony, watching the korbanot going on (bring binoculars), while dh has to stand in line down there with thousands of other men, holding a goat on a leash. I don't think being there is any "worse" than the women's section in shul.

3. I don't know how others are holding, but I consider dh and me and our dcs as a family unit. Supporting him and if possible watching him bringing a korban is certainly a source of pride and no worse than let's say, women attending a giant siyum haShas, even if it was the men who did the actual learning.

I'm determined to look forward to it and hope it'll happen in my lifetime.

(edited for typos)

Jeanette

Sun, Jan 03 2021, 10:06 am

Wow, I love this conversation! This is really called living with Moshiach. A true achakeh lo b'chol yom sheyavo, when Moshiach is so real that you're already figuring out which bus you'll take to get to the Beis Hamikdosh and how you'll navigate the complexities of tumah and taharah.

Exactly how those halachos will be implemented l'asid lavo is a matter of debate.

The Navi Zecharia says ואת רוח הטומאה אעביר מן הארץ--the spirit of impurity will be removed from this earth.
We also know that eventually there will be techias hameisim and בלע המות לנצח--death will be swallowed up forever.

But it says in Gemara אין בין העולם הזה לימות המשיח אלא שעבוד מלכויות בלבד--There is no difference between these days and yemos Hamoshiach except that we will no longer be subjugated by the non jews.

So, how do we resolve this?
One view is that there will be various stages in yemos hamoshiach. In the first stage the nature of the world will not change and people will still be born and die, except we will no longer be subjugated by the non jews. Techias Hameisim will be in the second stage.

According to one opinion, shibud malchius does not only mean being subjugated by other nations, it also means being subjugated by our yetzer hara. When Moshiach comes, we will no longer be dominated by any negative force, internal or external. So maybe the halachos of tumah and taharah will be in place but without the physical and psychological barriers that make fulfilling these halachos difficult.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jan 03 2021, 10:12 am

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

From Sanhedrin 99a:
דאמר שמואל אין בין העולם הזה לימות המשיח אלא שעבוד מלכיות בלבד
Shmuel says: The difference between this world and the messianic era is only with regard to servitude to foreign kingdoms alone, as they will leave Eretz Yisrael.

The Gemara appears to accept Shmuel's position, and the Rambam codifies it lehalacha.

Of course Hashem can do all kinds of miracles, but Moshiach is not necessarily about making our lives pleasant. It's about establishing Hashem's supremacy, and is evidenced by a sovereign state of Israel.

Will the avoda in the Mikdash be reinstated? We've been davening for that. But yeah, my guess is that the average person will try to have as little interaction with the Mikdash as possible, and we'll go about life happily tamei 99 percent of the time.

I think that life with Hashem's obvious supremacy is going to be extremely pleasant.
People will be tomei for all sorts of reasons. There won't be a stigma, it'll be a matter of fact part of life.

amother

Firebrick

Sun, Jan 03 2021, 2:21 pm

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

Isn't Hashem bigger than logistics?
Also, I was taught that Yerushalayim will become the size of EY (in terms of holiness, according to some), and EY will become like the entire world.

cbsp

Sun, Jan 03 2021, 4:26 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

We are unofficially engaged BH Smile

Still nervous because of the Kohein-specific halachos though!!

Mazal Tov OP!

I recall hearing a Rabbi Reisman navi shiur from at least 10 or so years ago where he mentions how grateful we should be that plastic was invented - plastic keilim will obviate many future tumah/tahara shaylos. I also remember him mentioning in that shiur something about kohanim wearing disposable gloves, but I don't remember what issue that was solving...

amother

Sun, Jan 03 2021, 4:48 pm

cbsp wrote:

Thank you - brucha tehi!

Interesting theory about plastic and disposable gloves.

STovah

Sun, Jan 03 2021, 5:22 pm

cbsp wrote:

I was going to post this as well - that plastics and disposables will make it much easier based on Rabbi Reismans shiur.

amother

Wheat

Sun, Jan 03 2021, 9:32 pm

This thread makes me so sad. We are supposed to yearn for moshiach every day.

And to the person who said life won't change except the nation's will serve Hashem, that may be true in the beginning but it is certainly not true for later stages of moshiach. There will be techiyas hamaisim and the sin of adam and chava will be corrected and we will live in a time where Hashem is known to the world. How can you say life won't change? That by definition means we will have clarity and truth which is the opposite of life today.

No one should be worrying about any of this stuff at all. Life is going to be beautiful and wonderful and it's the yetzer harah that is making you fearful so you don't want him to come.