Debt or Public School?

amother

Mint

Mon, Jan 04 2021, 5:22 pm

Call Chabad
Move to somewhere there’s an affordable authentic Jewish education option
Sorry if someone thinks ps is ok due to % of Jews there you have no idea what goes on in even the “good” schools or the absolute priority of Jewish chinuch - kids are tired after a whole day tough to supplement tho that’s not the biggest challenge
Hatzlocha

amother

Mon, Jan 04 2021, 5:27 pm

flower2 wrote:

Ok, but how will you pay for diapers/food/clothing for the many kids you said you want to have (forget tuition or camp)? And what about when you don't fit into your rental anymore? And how will you save for retirement (let alone a simcha or a cushion if someone looses their job or to help your kids with their higher education)?
Your previous posts make it sound like you are barely scraping by w 1-2 kids, if you want a larger family (even wo tuition), costs go up.

What do you mean fit LOL

I’m guessing you didn’t grow up in a 3rd world country. You don’t need a lot of money for clothes , or diapers...train them., or simchas. Everything doesn’t have to be grand.

amother

Crimson

Mon, Jan 04 2021, 5:34 pm

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

Public school would be the mistake of your life! Do not do it! My friend had the same conversation with me and she ended up putting her teens in p.s. and one of them got pregnant by a black boyfriend classmate!
Plead with the Yeshiva’s and they will help you.

Was he at least Jewish?

My niece went to a Jewish school. She got pregnant by a non-Jewish boy her senior year in high school. That kid at least had a bris. She eventually married another non-Jew, and none of their kids have any connection to Judaism.

My friend's daughter waited until her first year in college to get pregnant by the non-Jewish boyfriend.

There are no guarantees in life.

MOST people who intermarry don't have any connection to Judaism. If you don't go to shul, or Jewish schools, or Jewish camps. Don't celebrate Jewish holidays. What reason to you have NOT to intermarry. Most children raised with a connection to Judaism, like every Orthodox kid, in-marry.

Marriage isn't the reason for Jewish schools. Education is. I strongly support them. But public school is not a death sentence.

flower2

Mon, Jan 04 2021, 5:55 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

What do you mean fit LOL

I’m guessing you didn’t grow up in a 3rd world country. You don’t need a lot of money for clothes , or diapers...train them., or simchas. Everything doesn’t have to be grand.

No I'm American and by your posts I assumed you are as well. I am oot and very low key but life does cost money. But if you want to live and raise your kids in a 3rd world country or to those standards that's obviously your choice- best of luck

amother

Gold

Mon, Jan 04 2021, 5:56 pm

I have one child in PS because of special needs. It is absolutely the best place for him to be. In PS he is able to be largely mainstreamed and in the local Jewish schools it would not be an option. The secular curriculum is very good, the teachers are excellent, and the children are well behaved. I am worried about high school but we will see where things are as time progresses.

It doesn't help to say things like "your child will never remain frum" or "will definitely intermarry" because it's provably false when you state it as an absolute. Scaring people into yeshiva is not the way. I know people are going to say "well we don't mean SN kids" but when you say it like that you're including them. Less likely is not the same as impossible and the thing about yeshiva is that it is also a proxy for heavy Jewish involvement and socialization, which are very important for marrying in.

It is certainly worth talking to the school. But the reality is that many schools cannot help to the extent needed. NYC does *not* have vouchers. New York has an extremely strong Blaine amendment which prohibits most forms of direct aid to religious schools. Homeschooling may be an option but only if you can make it work--and not everyone can. Oorah might help but I think they target kids who are already in PS.

Let's not kid ourselves--tuition is a real crisis.

amother

Mon, Jan 04 2021, 6:01 pm

flower2 wrote:

Nope. I’m European and my husband is SA. We live in America now. If you want to raise your kids to whatever standards you’re talking about , best of luck to you too? To other imas thanks for the support.

TwinsMommy

Mon, Jan 04 2021, 7:13 pm

I grew up in public school and became frum.

My kids are growing up in public school and so proud to be frum and so blessed to be getting the education they're getting.

I have so much to say about the comparison between my daughter's public school and two of our Orthodox Jewish schools (at which my husband has worked so yes we know details) but I won't.

At the beginning we got "stuck" in public due to our children's special needs.

Now I CHOOSE public having seen both sides. I might choose differently if I lived elsewhere and had another option (fewer special needs)--- but--- my son got KICKED OUT of public school due to his behaviors and I CANNOT WAIT for him to be allowed back if ever (he's already in 8th grade--- got kicked out in 4th).

The assumption that all public schools are filled with crime, teen pregnancies, and frum kids going OTD is ridiculous.

imorethanamother

Mon, Jan 04 2021, 8:23 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Why? So we can never see each other. And fuss over money like this post ? IS IT WORTH it ? That’s the reason of this post. We love the time we have with each other and ourselves. We have no debt. We both went to higher education. I can’t kill myself over something that won’t matter in the long run. Is unpredictable anyways. We’re poorer but happy.

It depends what's important to you in life. You're liking all the posts that say that "Hey, my kid is in public school and it's fine", and you're ignoring all the posts to the contrary. It sounds like your decision is already made. You like your life, you think schooling "won't matter in the long run,", and you don't want to "fuss over money".

My parents sacrificed a lot to pay our tuitions. It's what my mother davened for every day. To be able to pay the tuition. She said so, a lot, to us, how much it meant for her.

Today, one of my children is in public school, because he has autism. Severe autism. He has a full time shadow, also not Jewish. Despite specific and strict instructions about being on a kosher diet, despite having someone there with him at all times that also knows my specific instructions, he was fed Dominos pizza. He had instances where other kids would throw his kippah away. He learns about x-mas and Halloween and they have the class watch movies like, "Charlie Brown's x-mas", Avengers movies, and Star Wars.

And because he's autistic? My kid is the lucky one. My friends who have kids with Asperger's/ASD have watched Brokeback Mountain in class, were bullied for being Jewish (and so they no longer wear their kippah, and are not interested in being different), and eat the school lunch that is not kosher.

I would do anything to have my son in a Jewish private school. Anything. I'm a minority fighting against a majority culture in the classroom, and the majority wins. I find this whole conversation to be the saddest thing. I wish you luck, OP.

Learning

Mon, Jan 04 2021, 8:37 pm

I didn’t read the whole thread. I think in today’s world public school is a Russian roulette with very high percentage of spiritual death. It’s a crazy world out there with drugs zex internet and all the gender studies and much much more. It’s not what it used to be. I think beg and do whatever you can to give your children a Jewish upbringing.

amother

Purple

Mon, Jan 04 2021, 9:20 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Huh? This post I don't get. "I can't kill myself over something that won't matter in the long run." OP stick your head in the sand if you must, but we all know that attending public school instead of a frum school matters in the long run.

I also don't understand the mentality of not working so that you and your husband can hang out together all the time. My husband works very hard, long hours and I'm home with the kids. And yes, I do get to see him. Life costs money, someone needs to be working in order to pay the bills.

notshanarishona

Mon, Jan 04 2021, 9:31 pm

[quote="amother [ OP ]"]

amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:

I had a similar situation and had to put my kids in public since I couldn't afford tuition.

There were Jewish kids in the PS they went and after a few years I could afford yeshiva and they transitioned well since we taught them kodesh after school.

They knew not to eat anything at school, they wore kippah and tziztit to PS, and bh now we can send them to yeshiva.

This makes me feel better. And that they’re free to do so.

We are talking 20-40k per year per kid . For reference: we don’t own a house. We rent and the deal we get we pay an amazing 24,000 a year in rent. Not adding untilities and we barely make that.

Sounds like you are living in a very expensive city. Most places tuition is more like $10 k per kid and less with a scholarship. If it’s important to you (and I believe it should be even more so with your husband not being frum) for your kids to have a chance of a good Jewish education then consider moving somewhere more affordable.

amother

Rose

Mon, Jan 04 2021, 9:37 pm

octopus wrote:

It sounds like the foundations of your religious life are shaky to begin with. It does not sound like your children will get the religious framework from your home. Please take that into account before sending to public school.

Yes so much this. In an obviously very different time my great-grandmother went to PS. But her father was the Rav of their city and her home was a rock solid makom Torah. She had her special Shabbos toys because she couldn't go out with her friends Friday night. Again this was 85 years ago and the world was in a much better place.

If you do choose the PS route, know that the all of the chinuch re yiddishkeit will have to come from you which is great as long you take that job very seriously. You'll have to "top" the shmutz out there with a home and Shabbos full of simcha that your child would rather be in than go to parties Friday night for example...

amother

Slateblue

Mon, Jan 04 2021, 10:08 pm

octopus wrote:

Exactly. Her husband is OTD so he won’t care if their kids are frum one way or the other, and I think that mentality has crept into OP’s decision making. If people are good whether they’re frum or not, then why should she send to private school and not go on vacations instead?

I know someone in exactly this situation. Exactly. Her husband went to public school growing up and was barely frum. They jointly decided to send to public school so that they could spend money on other things. They said that it would be fine. Last year, they attended the Halloween party the school threw- on shabbos - because the kids badly wanted to go. I am not a Navi and I can’t see the future for anyone, but this doesn’t bode well.