Ds is very into secular music

amother

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 2:40 am

He is a very good kid bh and is a yashiva boy he really works hard all week , every day. Getting up early , making his bus , learning, When he comes home after a whole day he gives himself out with his music. Today he wanted me to listen to the music he is into and I was really surprised that it wasnt Yiddish songs . It's more Israeli style which I find worse because we dont know the language and what is if it's being very low style or maybe if I knew what the words were I would never let my son listen to it , also some English songs but none Jewish. Ds loves it and dances around with it . I'm really not happy about it . I was at lost how to confront my son about it and say we dont listen to such songs as he didn't even see what is wrong with it . He claims it doesn't take away his learning. But still the words I heard from certain songs I just really didn't feel it belongs for a typical yashiva boy to listen to . And even more that my 6 year old son started saying he likes this music . In what world are we living? I didnt wanna be to pushy towards my son cause it can backfire or make it worse. I did give him the message that it doesn't pas for a yashiva boy , and that its immodest, and I don't allow it in my house . But even if I dont allow it and he respects that with not turning it on loud in the house, he just listens to it with his ear plugs , I still feel this songs and music can leave him with not good impacts cv. I Dont know what to do. I did reach out to his chavrusa though if he can talk to my son about it . What else would others have done ?

amother

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 2:58 am

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

It's unlikely to have a negative impact if he can't understand the lyrics. And by the way, a surprising amount of contemporary Israeli music has religious themes. Even if he is listening to trashy music, I'd let it go. He's looking for an outlet of some kind, and doesn't seem to have many options. Maybe ask him to play some.of it for you, not so you can censor it, but so you can share in his interest.

I really get you and understand not to show any emotions or make a big deal out of it . Though my concern is because one English song I heard something like kiss my body ... if you're into secular music you can get what I mean. I dont in any means think that my son listens to it on purpose or even picks up the inappropriateness of the music he just likes the way its sang , just I know that some songs can be very s-xy songs . I'd rather he not get used to listen to thos songs .

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 3:07 am

OP, two things. One, you have to choose your battles with your children. Is this the hill you want to die on? Is this a big enough issue for you that you want to argue about it and possibly loose something with your son?
Second, I have listened to english music and israeli music my entire life. Its not all bad. You could possibly ask him not to listen to the real shmutz. But also, a lot of israeli music is not as bad as one might think. Yes, there is some awful stuff, but a lot is not.
Maybe help him find english and hebrew music that is not extremely awful and a bit more tame, if it is that important to you.

Success10

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 3:48 am

OP, you sound like an amazing mom, that you're not making a war out of this, or banning his music by force. If he is already a pre-teen or teen, you can't really force him to do anything at this point. All you can do is continue to educate him that the things he listens to affect his neshama, and his learning. But not in an annoying preachy way. Just gently, and infrequently.

You could speak to an outside party for advice, but I would not speak to his rebbe or chavrusa. It's sort of tattling on him and invading his private life and it might backfire.

amother

Brown

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 3:56 am

Success10 wrote:

You could speak to an outside party for advice, but I would not speak to his rebbe or chavrusa. It's sort of tattling on him and invading his private life and it might backfire.

This. Why did you speak to his chavrusa? That could very well backfire.
You have an enthusiastic teen who wants to share his interests with his mom. Wow. Don't take that lightly. I would NOT go and then 'tattle' on him to others....or he will stop sharing stuff with you. If he wanted to tell them, he would have.

You will now have to do damage control since it seems you already told the chavrusa.

As for the music itself - we listen to everything (different circles) and some is inappropriate, I grant you that. However, most people don't pay as much attention to the words as you think. And as others said, it's something you will need to guide him gently on.

As for Israeli music - as others said, many modern Israeli songs have a beautiful frum message, even if they aren't what you think of as frum. Hanan Ben Ari for example.

DrMom

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 5:20 am

Re: Hebrew music:

You don't know the words, your DS doesn't know the words, and yet you assume that the words are inappropriate and immodest?

There is all sorts of Hebrew music, just as there are all sorts of English music. Also, the standard Israeli pop music you hear on the radio generally does not contain obscene words or inappropriate language. Its very different from the US (no Cardi B WAP here...). There is also religious pop music which is quite popular.

Why don't you ask your son what he is listening to and google the lyrics instead of assuming he is listening to garbage?

Also, maybe your son is a very musical person. Is he musically-inclined? Maybe he would benefit from some sort of music education (guitar lessons, piano, etc.).

amother

Navy

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 5:37 am

smart keep the lines of communication open
you and mentors can get the message to him that this does affect our neshamos
not in a judgmental or preachy or heavy handed way
emphasize the positive find good jewish music he likes, encourage the light and let it crowd out the darkness
focus on the light
emphasize you trust his judgement
let him phase it out
he will stop
make it a teachable opportunity how we choose life and overcome our sneaky yetzer hara though you do not have to say that just model how we choose the best and most positive for our neshamos

hugs and hatzlocha

LovesHashem

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 6:09 am

I understand how hard this must be for you. If your child is 12 or past that he is really past the age of chinuch. Forcing him to stop, will just have him going behind your back. Also talking to his chavrusa will also.

So what can you do?
1. You can make house rules. "You can listen to what you would like with your headphones but in this house we do not play this kind of music out loud." Tell him his is not allowed to share the music with his siblings. What he does for himself is between him and Hashem.

2. You can have an open conversation about if this is what he wants. Does he want to NOT do this but it's hard for him? If so you can help him come up with ideas to make it easier for him to avoid this music. If he wants to listen you cannot try to convince him to stop or bribe him to stop by buying him Jewish music. You can ask "DS, would it help to buy more Jewish music?" if he says no than drop it.

3. You can model by playing Jewish music in the home, or getting excited about new Jewish music.

4. You can support DS when he gives you Jewish songs that aren't your style or your ideal to listen to by listening with him and sharing with him. Don't expect DS to be on your music level and only listen to yiddish. There's lots of frum english and hebrew songs that may be a more nonjewish style but are certainly better than words with s-xy themes.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 6:29 am

LovesHashem wrote:

As a mother of a kid who loves secular music, I second every word of this.

OP, you must be doing something right, that DS wants you to sit down and listen with him! Most boys (or teens in general) are more closed off, and wouldn't share like that. It's a huge testament to how much he trusts you.

I think you can calmly and reasonably discuss which parts you find problematic, without going overboard. You can ask him "How do you feel when the song says ... XYZ?" and see what he has to say about it. Make it a conversation, not a lecture. Let him explain!

A couple of years ago, DD was feeling very suicidal. She loved a band called Twenty One Pilots, and they just released an album called "Trench". She asked me to listen to it with her, because it explained so much about how she was feeling at the time. It talked about depression, anxiety, and feeling isolated - but it also talked about holding on, knowing you're not alone, and that things would get better.

She said later on that the music literally saved her life and kept her from doing something drastic.

If I had forbidden her from ever listening to secular music... Oy, I don't even want to think about it. B'H she discovered that band, and that they could speak to her in words she could understand. Sometimes parents don't have the right words that a teen needs to hear. You never know who is going to be the shaliach you need.

I'm so happy that she shared the lyrics with me. Sometimes I listen to them when I'm feeling down, too. The song "Leave the City" is especially powerful.

LovesHashem

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 7:13 am

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

I would focus on all the mailos of my child and let this take a backseat

I somewhat disagree. If this is a family where they really only do yiddish songs I'm assuming they are chassidish or otherwise sheltered more. Having a young teen listen to the most s-xy pop songs and go to a yiddish yeshiva are so polar opposites, it can really affect a kid negatively especially one who seems not to have any exposure to those kinds of things.

But OP can't really make her kid stop listening to it. But she can do other things to help him like I suggested in my first post.

amother

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 8:38 am

amother [ Brown ] wrote:

Ok so let me explain more. The chavrusa I reached out to is not just a chavrusa . He works with my son in other areas too . Hes very friendly with my ds and helps him a lot . My son wont know that I spoke to him cause I told chavrusa to just make a conversation about it and hear what my son has to say , and also I asked him advice . He is a person that I do reach out to when I have such kind of questions, so again it's not just a plain chavrusa . He is also like a mentor to my ds . My son takes him seriously. I did tell chavrusa not even to repeat that I said anything. He is experienced working with teens and knows how to confront without making teen feel bad.

amother

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 9:10 am

LovesHashem wrote:

Ds is not a sheltered boy . (Not being sheltered doesn't mean that they can get their easy way out with anything, not sheltered kids also need boundaries) he doesn't go to a very chassidish yashiva , but it's a Frum and intense learning, but they play soccer or football too if that helps . We never restricted him with any kinds of music , he always listen to nissim black and we allow him to . he knows I dont go for that styles so he respects that . The other day he just wanted to share with me, which is nice. I sat down and watched him dance to the music . Later I told him that next time I'd rather he puts in earplugs rather than turn it on loud . He accepted it very maturely. My concern was just the English songs the wording I heard . About the Israeli songs I'm not sure though. Ds is almost 16 he is not a niave kid. He is open minded in a healthy way . Just the English secular songs bothers me .

LovesHashem

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 10:23 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Okay - I understand it bothers you. But he's past the age of chinuch and you can't tell him what to do . You can make rules for your home, such as not sharing the music with younger children or playing it out loud - but you cannot tell a teen what to do in personal areas.

It doesn't work. I also want to add the fact that he is sharing it with you shows you have a good relationship. Most boys that age would NEVER do that!