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S/o feel more comfortable around men
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 1:24 pm
For some reason, I enjoy having conversations with men more than women. Not inappropriate topics or things like that, just general shmoozing. I find them more relaxed and easy to talk to. I’m more of an introvert but I find that I can come out more in discussions with men versus women.
I wish I could change that, it’s not acceptable in my circles.
Anyone else like this? What can I do?
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amother




Jetblack
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 1:33 pm
Same here, which is why I converse with men online, and speak to my brothers in law even at my in laws.
I hope they don’t mind it but too bad if they do.
I was never very feminine.
(I also find that I am on even ground when debating them, women are usually not as intellectually interested.)

I don’t think you need to do anything. Just be who you are.
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amother




Burlywood
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 1:48 pm
Conversing with men online is a really dangerous slippery slope.
And what's wrong with talking to your brothers in law at your in laws???
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amother




Brunette
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 1:55 pm
You probably just need to find female friends who are less traditionally feminine.
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amother




Jetblack
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 2:09 pm
amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:
Conversing with men online is a really dangerous slippery slope.
And what's wrong with talking to your brothers in law at your in laws???


Isn’t really dangerous anonymously on public forums.
We are raised that talking to men automatically leads to problems. That is not true. Ever heard of being friend zoned? Just friends is a real thing.
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amother




Jetblack
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 2:10 pm
amother [ Brunette ] wrote:
You probably just need to find female friends who are less traditionally feminine.


Well I have been looking and haven’t found them yet.
I don’t have a problem with what works for me, so why should you?
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amother




Brunette
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 2:11 pm
OP said it's not accepted in her circles.
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amother




Burlywood
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 2:12 pm
amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:
Isn’t really dangerous anonymously on public forums.
We are raised that talking to men automatically leads to problems. That is not true. Ever heard of being friend zoned? Just friends is a real thing.


I didn't say conversing with men, I said conversing online. People feel more comfortable to say things they wouldn't say in person. It's definitely a slippery slope.
We shouldn't be conversing with strange men just for the enjoyment and entertainment, online or in person.
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amother




Jetblack
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 2:12 pm
amother [ Brunette ] wrote:
OP said it's not accepted in her circles.

It isn’t accepted in my circles either. Doesn’t stop me.
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amother




Jetblack
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 2:15 pm
amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:
I didn't say conversing with men, I said conversing online. People feel more comfortable to say things they wouldn't say in person. It's definitely a slippery slope.
We shouldn't be conversing with strange men just for the enjoyment and entertainment, online or in person.


The problem with conversing with men is that it shouldn’t lead to anything. Conversing with men on a public moderated forum does not lead to anything slippery. They don’t even need to know I am a female.
People feel more comfortable to say whatever on this forum anonymously too. Doesn’t mean anything sinister happens.
We can converse with whoever we want and you should not be restricting others because of your personal beliefs.
You do you.
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amother




Gray
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 2:30 pm
When I want an intellectually stimulating conversation, I often prefer to speak to men.

It's mostly an ego thing, because in my experience -
Women who know enough to have these conversations have gone through higher education; I haven't, so I sometimes feel that my opinions are less adequate/important than theirs.
With the men I converse, they are either college-educated but have no compunction about me not having higher education, or they are simply more worldly/knowledgeable and are therefore able to have these conversations in the first place.

I enjoy eavesdropping on many conversations here on imamother where there is debate based on educated opinions. I usually don't dare post my opinions, though, because I feel that my lack of education disqualifies me.
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amother




Slateblue
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 2:31 pm
When I was more or less newly married and childless, I went to gatherings with other young couples. The men were friends of my dh but I didn't know their wives too well or at all. All the women wanted to talk about was strollers and diapers, which at that time were of no interest to me . So why wouldn't I want to stand beside my dh and listen to his conversation with his pals? Even if the conversation was boring, at least I was with dh, not feeling like a fish out of water among a bunch of new moms whom I didn't know and would likely never see again, discussing something that had no relevance to my life.

I imagine the hostess thought I was making eyes at her dh because she "invited" me, very politely but with a distinct edge to her voice, to join the women in the side room where they were gathered, away from the men.
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amother




Lemon
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 2:32 pm
I find men to be more “real” and less focused on looks etc. they tend have stronger views and reasonings than the average woman which is what I appreciate very much. Wish I could have boyfriends because being limited to girlfriends only is pretty difficult for me. I only listen to male speakers too.
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zaq




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 2:38 pm
amother [ Gray ] wrote:


I enjoy eavesdropping on many conversations here on imamother where there is debate based on educated opinions. I usually don't dare post my opinions, though, because I feel that my lack of education disqualifies me.


Post anonymously and no one need ever know.
Lack of formal education does not mean lack of intelligence. There are many reasons why an intelligent, even intellectual, person may not have a college education. You can be well-read and well-versed in many topics, and have life experience and common sense that make you as qualified if not more so than someone with a piece of paper.
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amother




Pumpkin
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 2:40 pm
Men are not less judgy than women. In my experience, they are just judgy about different things and they express it differently. They frequently mock other men and women behind their backs and I've also seen men many times subtly mock a person to their face who was not aware they were being mocked. Perhaps some women perceive men as less judgy because they have not really been exposed to their frank conversations or do not fully comprehend the exchanges that are happening.
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zaq




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 2:44 pm
amother [ Lemon ] wrote:
I only listen to male speakers too.


So, do we assume you consult only male doctors, lawyers, shadchanim and accountants? I forgive you if you're over 80 years old or grew up in a Moslem country, but if you're a young woman you ought to be ashamed of yourself. You're doing all of femalekind an injustice and yourself a disservice. Gender does not determine a speaker's worthiness.
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bigsis144




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 2:44 pm
amother [ Lemon ] wrote:
I find men to be more “real” and less focused on looks etc. they tend have stronger views and reasonings than the average woman which is what I appreciate very much. Wish I could have boyfriends because being limited to girlfriends only is pretty difficult for me. I only listen to male speakers too.


This makes me so sad.
Women have brains and anyone who thinks men are naturally deeper or smarter has some internalized misogyny to work out.

Hang out with the nerdy girls; boys have nothing on us.

(Re: male speakers, I think some of this is that frum women speakers have been forced by society into certain corners - shiurim given by and aimed at women are often marriage/child/“finding meaning in the everyday” kind of things. A halacha shiur will almost always be given by a male, etc.)
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amother




Pumpkin
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 2:55 pm
I am not "traditionally feminine" etc. etc. and I have always been able to find both male and female friends with whom to enjoy intellectual conversation, jokes, and debate. Maybe in the most sheltered communities there are dynamics I don't understand which affect men and women differently in terms of their ability to be exposed to ideas and develop intellectually.

But, and this is where I will sound like a huge jerk, most men and women are not really saying anything that interesting intellectually at any given conversation. Even many of those who are capable, either aren't bothering or aren't comfortable. And many of those who want to debate or talk about "intellectual" topics actually are not really capable. They're not well informed, have poor reasoning skills that make it impossible to have a worthwhile exchange, or are too emotional about their subject for a productive debate. So if someone regularly finds male conversations to be intellectually fascinating and never finds any women to be intellectually interesting, they're either surrounded by a very unusually selective crowd or there is something else going on.
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Motherhood




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 3:03 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
For some reason, I enjoy having conversations with men more than women. Not inappropriate topics or things like that, just general shmoozing. I find them more relaxed and easy to talk to. I’m more of an introvert but I find that I can come out more in discussions with men versus women.
I wish I could change that, it’s not acceptable in my circles.
Anyone else like this? What can I do?

Not sure which men you talk to, but the men in family wouldn’t qualify! LOL
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Chickensoupprof




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jan 07 2021, 3:06 pm
I usually like to hang more out with men, because they are easy to read for me... I also had as teen a few male gay friends, no s-xual attraction, and both outcast. I find women sometimes really hard, double messages, excluding and sometimes beyond mean. If I look now at my female friends they are a bit out of the box, one makes like ''lockerroom'' jokes and then does ''nudge nudge wink wink'' for example she is not ''girly'' at all another one is really open-minded in her thinking and another one is like me also really easily overstimulated and let me be... I often had the feeling that girls didn't want me, that I had something that disgusted them. I got bullied by them and openly excluded. However, some men were also weird to me. One said literally to me, it was one of the best friends of my cousin and basically when I came in the room their heads turned to me like ''wow''...He said: ''You are hot, you are beautiful but when you open your mouth you begin to talk about such deep stuff like philosophy, religion, art, and history it's intriguing but also weird'' and I think that is true and that's why I haven't a lot of friendships but I feel general women have way more ''codes'' how to behave then men... However I wished as a teen I had like a girlsgroup and everything like any ''normal'' girl I really wanted to have a best friend like in the movies and the magazines....

Oh btw now I'm frum so basically most of these things don't matter because Im not in highschool anymore.... but in the Frum community I'm often with my husband talking with other men, however I like women though but I get easy around men, I find it weird if a strong chassidishe guy is nice to me, I once felt and a shtreimel wearing man picked me up and held my arm and I felt beyond weird... but yeah guys are honest and do don't backstabbing.
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