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Shloime Zionce and Peter Santanello series on Chassidim
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amother




Dodgerblue
 

Post  Tue, Jan 12 2021, 3:12 pm
This was a absolutely beautiful to watch.

Im satmar from wmsbg, and although my tables-cape and dining room furnishings isn't nearly as upscale and trendy as theirs, for the most part my seudah looks similar to this.

There’s zemiros, there’s singing, my kids even bicker and get in each others hair. They spill their cup of grape juice (too often) or soup, and there’s a trail of challah crumbs beneath everyone’s chair. We sing, we laugh, we review their booklets from school/cheder or anything they want to discuss and then when the kids get antsy, or fall of their chair, or gasp- they run around the table- they are free to go into the room and play. Granted we only serve traditional food, and I choose to be comfortable in a long robe and snood, but what does that have to do with any of this. If I’d have a bunch of guests around and know that im being filmed, I would most definitely dress up for the occasion. My husband does sit with his shtreimel throughout the seudah but that is his personal preference. I come from a large family and some of my siblings remove it since they are sensory and uncomfortable with the extra weight.
I happen to be a fairly rigid person and love peace and quiet. Yet I know kids will be kids and in all my years growing up or eating at family/in laws I have yet to come across a rigid shabbos meal. (And were ultra chassidish)
Also regarding the home, I didnt find this to be extravagant at all. In fact the kitchen didn't seem to be like it was a current remodel and the rest of the house (except for the dining room) seemed like it still had the original tiles/floors etc. Brooklyn, monsey and monroe have mansions that far outdo this one, except maybe for size.

Lastly, kudos to the steinmetz family. Their natural warmth and loveliness really came through and I wish I’d be a little less rigid and can have guests around my table like they did.
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amother




Blush
 

Post  Tue, Jan 12 2021, 3:36 pm
amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote:
I don't think I was ever at a shabbos seudah where the wife didn't sit next to the husband. Usually to the right. And I grew up in williamsburg. You can arrange the table so that the men who are not related do not sit straight across someone else's wife.


This!!! My fil is chassidish/fanatic to the nth degree.. he looks past me when he talks to me. And my mil always sat next to him at the side of the table.
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nchr




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 12 2021, 3:38 pm
amother [ Blush ] wrote:
This!!! My fil is chassidish/fanatic to the nth degree.. he looks past me when he talks to me. And my mil always sat next to him at the side of the table.


Because this is a personal seating preference. She isn't sitting oiven oon next to him at head like in the clip.
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amother




Dodgerblue
 

Post  Tue, Jan 12 2021, 3:51 pm
nchr wrote:
Because this is a personal seating preference. She isn't sitting oiven oon next to him at head like in the clip.


I also sit at the side of my husband but If I’d insist in sitting next to him and my table would be wide enough he would have no issue with it. If I’d have guests then maybe I’d rearrange it.
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amother




Wine
 

Post  Tue, Jan 12 2021, 4:10 pm
Thank you so much cbsp for posting that link!
I am so impressed!
The warmth and joy is tangible B”H
So refreshing to see the vlogger/film maker be so open minded and positive B”H
Mi k’amcha yisroel
We are truly so blessed.
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youngishbear




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 12 2021, 5:54 pm
mochamix18 wrote:
Were you responding to me? Cuz I think we were saying the same thing. As far as Shterny, I was referring to a very specific comment she responded under the video which I will not requote to add the lashon harah and bickering on this thread. But yes from how she responded it appeared she felt her wealth was being judged and it was not. The commenter she was responding too was simply saying it might be a good idea to have a wider socioeconomic representation in videos of Jews so as not to feed the antisemetic trope that all Jews are wealthy. That is all. And I agree why can’t people live and let live? This goes from everything to money, to parenting, to hashkafa, to location and all the subcategories of those things.


Okay, now I'm curious about this comment because this was my immediate reaction, too. It's not about judging any particular person's lifestyle, but wishing for a greater variety of socioeconomic representation. The price of a shtreimel and sheitel mentioned in other videos could seem outrageous to outsiders (and plenty of insiders, too...).

On a related note, I appreciated that the shul Peter visited was simple (and not too crowded). The beauty of our lifestyle does not lie in externals, although we forget it all too often.
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nchr




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 12 2021, 6:13 pm
freilich wrote:
My gosh I don't know where to start.

Men and women separated I agree that's mostly how it is. But I have no issue to have a couple over and they sit next to each other.

Respect...where do you see that missing? I would think whats missing is Kaduchis-fear, not respect.

Speaking Yiddish...while most tri state chassidish families speak Yiddish, this is not all. Maybe those who speak Yiddish didn't want to because obviously there's a guest here who doesn't speak that language.

Normal zemiros? I heard shalom aleichem, eishes chayil, then a beautiful Heimish s hartziga, kiddush. There was some singing after the meal as well.

Torah, while there's none on the video doesn't mean that there wasn't. But even if there wasn't, do you think every single seuda in every chasidish house includes divrei Torah? Nevertheless, they will still
Running an authentic chasidish seuda y without it, just maybe not as meaningful.

Shailos is family preference, ze hu.

Quiet.... that's a tough one. Can you teach me some tricks of the trade?

Shterny if your here, you Rock!

Lol Hakuvid to you and your family.


Honestly if you go back you will see I said nice things about these people being sincere, just different. They don't have to be typical Chassidish. They don't even want to be. The only thing I felt was completely off putting and absolutely bothered me when the cleaner kissing the child. There is no way I would ever tolerate something like that, as I said, and I believe people jumped on me to be politically correct.
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amother




Chocolate
 

Post  Tue, Jan 12 2021, 7:05 pm
nchr wrote:
Some wives do sit next to the husband, but that is practically impossible once you have more than a few children and/or married children and certainly impossible with guests. It just isn't appropriate for a shvigger to sit across her eidim and certainly not across her guest. Under these circumstances you'll have mean toward the head, with the women on the other side.

I sit at the other end of the table, with the lecht in front of me, as does my mother, my shvigger, my bobbas, etc. Probably on the off Shabbos when couples do not come I imagine my Bobba sits next to my Zeida simply because that is how it works out (like a shuna rishona couple or young couple with just 2 or 3 children), but at a full table, it is not really comfortable or feasible for the mother to be next to the father.

A wife sitting oiven oon with her husband is unheard of IME.


I remember as an adult, "hearing" about people who arrange their shabbos table Like yours and I thought it was odd.
It happened when we were a bunch of couples at my mothers house one motzia shabbos and iy was a bit akward and we ended up sitting men one side ladies the other side. And since then big melava malkas were set up this way.
Then I got married and by my inlaws my mil always at next to her husband. Her sons would sit after her if there was a big crowd and ladies at the other end. But she always had a place next to her hsuband. Same with my grandmother who lived w my inlaws till she passed.

So no, the way you describe it is NOT the typical.

Shabbos seudas are always full of joy and laughter.
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LovesHashem




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 12 2021, 7:19 pm
I've never seen a wife sit on the other end of the table. And I know people who have tons of guests and little kids etc. Wife ALWAYS sits next to her husband.

I would totally sit at the head with DH but it does sound complicated logistically if you have a child in a high chair and my DH likes his space so we would need to have a VERY Very wide table.

I went to my in laws last year for the seder and they have tons guests, two tables off the main one and so they set it up like a U and wife ans husband sat on the long side.

I think that would kind of be fun for a regular shabbos. Being more accessible to all kids and guests etc.
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Metukah




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 12 2021, 8:29 pm
nchr wrote:
Men and women separated?
Respect?
Speaking Yiddish?
Normal zemiros, torahs, shailos?
Quiet?

If you want to say I'm too strict and not forgiving enough I'll swallow that but I'm not the only strict person on this earth.


I really didn't want to get into this discussion on here, because I know, I just know I'll regret it.

But, being that this is on the main board, I can't have people think you represent chassidus. maybe your enclave, but definitely not original Baal Shem Tov Chassidus.

I am chassidish. Real chassidish. All four grandparents were chassidish, traceable back for a few generations. DH is chassidish. More than my family is. He has very chassidish 'yichus'. Our way of life is nothing like you describe yours as being. I just want to reiterate that we are and consider ourselves chassidish. DH is very close to his Rebbe...

I don't wear a snood and robe at the Shabbos meal. In fact, I don't own a robe. I wear a sheitel, (longish) for candle lighting and keep it on until after the meal. I personally find it disrespectful to wear a snood at a Shabbos meal. I do know people who wear a snood/turban and robe, but it's not all and not even most.

At our Shabbos tables couples sit together, always. I sit next to my husband but not at the head of the table. When we have a full house I might sit next to him at the head of the table (as does my mother when it's full house), it's just a practicality issue. I don't think the woman sitting at the other end of the table makes her chassidish. The only woman I know who sits at the opposite end of the table is a litvish woman.

I don't know what respect you are referring to, everything seemed very respectful at that Shabbos meal. (Now, wearing a turban to a Shabbos meal, that's what I'd call disrespect).

Speaking Yiddish? Seriously? I don't speak Yiddish at home, not to DH and not to my kids. The only time Yiddish is spoken at my Shabbos table is when we have bochurim who's first language is Yiddish. Still then it is not the main language at the table. The main language is always English. Same both at my parents (English) and in laws (Hebrew). My father in law is a 'choshuve' chassidish yid. I've never heard Yiddish at the Shabbos table. It's always only ivrit. (Not everywhere is new York you know.)

Normal zemiros... They sang zemiros there. What wasn't 'normal' about it?

Quiet? Absolutely not. My house isn't a monastery and my kids aren't robots. Do you know what the concentration span of a 4 year old is? Not even 20 minutes. That doesn't even give you time from kiddush to fish. That is not a chassidish thing. Sorry. That sounds like a control issue you have.

My husband does not wear his shtreimel at the meal. It's extremely uncomfortable for him and the Shabbos meal isn't jail.

Elsewhere you mentioned that if she was chassidish she would shave. What? No, no and no again. Those chassidus in which woman shave do not constitute all chassidim.

Funny how Satmar is possibly the biggest chassidus and therefore many people think they represent chassidus, but in my eyes, when it comes to the Rebbe etc I personally don't consider Satmar chassidish in the way I look at chassidus. (Happy to provide examples).
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amother




Silver
 

Post  Tue, Jan 12 2021, 8:40 pm
This is not the way I grew up but I sit at the other end of the shabbos table. So that all the kids and adults are included in the table conversation and goingons. I don't like when the people (kids) at the far end of the table are left out.
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amother




Azure
 

Post  Tue, Jan 12 2021, 8:47 pm
amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:
This was a absolutely beautiful to watch.

Im satmar from wmsbg, and although my tables-cape and dining room furnishings isn't nearly as upscale and trendy as theirs, for the most part my seudah looks similar to this.

There’s zemiros, there’s singing, my kids even bicker and get in each others hair. They spill their cup of grape juice (too often) or soup, and there’s a trail of challah crumbs beneath everyone’s chair. We sing, we laugh, we review their booklets from school/cheder or anything they want to discuss and then when the kids get antsy, or fall of their chair, or gasp- they run around the table- they are free to go into the room and play. Granted we only serve traditional food, and I choose to be comfortable in a long robe and snood, but what does that have to do with any of this. If I’d have a bunch of guests around and know that im being filmed, I would most definitely dress up for the occasion. My husband does sit with his shtreimel throughout the seudah but that is his personal preference. I come from a large family and some of my siblings remove it since they are sensory and uncomfortable with the extra weight.
I happen to be a fairly rigid person and love peace and quiet. Yet I know kids will be kids and in all my years growing up or eating at family/in laws I have yet to come across a rigid shabbos meal. (And were ultra chassidish)
Also regarding the home, I didnt find this to be extravagant at all. In fact the kitchen didn't seem to be like it was a current remodel and the rest of the house (except for the dining room) seemed like it still had the original tiles/floors etc. Brooklyn, monsey and monroe have mansions that far outdo this one, except maybe for size.

Lastly, kudos to the steinmetz family. Their natural warmth and loveliness really came through and I wish I’d be a little less rigid and can have guests around my table like they did.


Beautiful post Applause

Agree with everything.

Shternie if you're reading this, kudos to you for such a fabulous job. It could not have been easy.
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nchr




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 12 2021, 9:04 pm
Metukah wrote:
I really didn't want to get into this discussion on here, because I know, I just know I'll regret it.

But, being that this is on the main board, I can't have people think you represent chassidus. maybe your enclave, but definitely not original Baal Shem Tov Chassidus.

I am chassidish. Real chassidish. All four grandparents were chassidish, traceable back for a few generations. DH is chassidish. More than my family is. He has very chassidish 'yichus'. Our way of life is nothing like you describe yours as being. I just want to reiterate that we are and consider ourselves chassidish. DH is very close to his Rebbe...

I don't wear a snood and robe at the Shabbos meal. In fact, I don't own a robe. I wear a sheitel, (longish) for candle lighting and keep it on until after the meal. I personally find it disrespectful to wear a snood at a Shabbos meal. I do know people who wear a snood/turban and robe, but it's not all and not even most.

At our Shabbos tables couples sit together, always. I sit next to my husband but not at the head of the table. When we have a full house I might sit next to him at the head of the table (as does my mother when it's full house), it's just a practicality issue. I don't think the woman sitting at the other end of the table makes her chassidish. The only woman I know who sits at the opposite end of the table is a litvish woman.

I don't know what respect you are referring to, everything seemed very respectful at that Shabbos meal. (Now, wearing a turban to a Shabbos meal, that's what I'd call disrespect).

Speaking Yiddish? Seriously? I don't speak Yiddish at home, not to DH and not to my kids. The only time Yiddish is spoken at my Shabbos table is when we have bochurim who's first language is Yiddish. Still then it is not the main language at the table. The main language is always English. Same both at my parents (English) and in laws (Hebrew). My father in law is a 'choshuve' chassidish yid. I've never heard Yiddish at the Shabbos table. It's always only ivrit. (Not everywhere is new York you know.)

Normal zemiros... They sang zemiros there. What wasn't 'normal' about it?

Quiet? Absolutely not. My house isn't a monastery and my kids aren't robots. Do you know what the concentration span of a 4 year old is? Not even 20 minutes. That doesn't even give you time from kiddush to fish. That is not a chassidish thing. Sorry. That sounds like a control issue you have.

My husband does not wear his shtreimel at the meal. It's extremely uncomfortable for him and the Shabbos meal isn't jail.

Elsewhere you mentioned that if she was chassidish she would shave. What? No, no and no again. Those chassidus in which woman shave do not constitute all chassidim.

Funny how Satmar is possibly the biggest chassidus and therefore many people think they represent chassidus, but in my eyes, when it comes to the Rebbe etc I personally don't consider Satmar chassidish in the way I look at chassidus. (Happy to provide examples).


I think people are mixing everyone else's comments with mine. I never mentioned a snood or a Shabbos robe (another few posters did). I actually never mentioned her clothing although yes they are not typical chassidish clothing. I was most bothered by the cleaning lady kissing the child and by the men and women mingling. I personally also don't know why you assume I wear a turban at my meal? I don't. I wear my regular covering with a white tichel. I said this seuda is not the typical chassidish seuda for the tri state chassidish area and several other posters agree. This woman herself would probably agree. That doesn't mean anything is wrong with her family chv! And it doesn't mean you're not chassidish.
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amother




Blush
 

Post  Tue, Jan 12 2021, 9:46 pm
And for everyone who decided that a turban, snood, robe is a negative mode of dress, you are being judgemental as well. You can look beautiful and shabbosdig in a gorgeous robe. which we decided is a robe.. I purchase my robes from regular stores and websites which the world at large considers dresses, albeit maxis.
And you can look like a frump in a sheitel and outfit.
So to each his own!
And like Shloimy said.. hes made shabbos alone in a hotel room, as have I.. alone in hospital rooms etc..
Shabbos should be felt within...
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QueensMama




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 12 2021, 10:01 pm
I'm actually going to defend nchr here. She is being criticized for things she never said.

Her choice of words were poor but by respect I think she means a certain "aura" of holiness where the Shabbos table is solely devoted to G-d. It's all about singing and Torah and talking to the children about Torah topics. The idea of a non Jewish person sitting there or a cleaner entering the room to extinguish the candles or wearing extremely fashion forward clothes at a spiritual event is what she is referring to.

I think.

At my Shabbos table we discuss politics and the like. But I have sat at the table of some very holy people where there was a real spiritual aura, the men spoke only Torah, the women were dressed in white lace aprons and kerchiefs and nothing worldly intruded. (Still, kids are kids and they left the table to play and fight and whatever. Kids sitting liek soldiers for two hours I have never seen.)
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amother




Aquamarine
 

Post  Wed, Jan 13 2021, 12:28 pm
amother [ Periwinkle ] wrote:
The wives are typical Lubavitch, dressed the way Lubavitch women usually dress. Their husbands are not the typical chassidim if they married their wives. Nothing against them, just fact. Then again, typical chassidim wouldn't let Peter in, wouldn't know how to explain things to a non-Jew, and wouldn't be so open and friendly.


You might have missed the second video in the series where Peter goes to Williamsburg and interviews a "typical" chassidish man and his son. They managed very well to explain things, even without having such a great command of English.
Also, in the video where he interviews Malky Weingarten, they meet several chassidish women who do a great job expressing themselves.
I agree that many chassidim would not want to put themselves in the limelight, but there are no shortage of "typical" chassidim (the type you are familiar with) who can express themselves well and would open their homes to someone like Peter.
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amother




Aquamarine
 

Post  Wed, Jan 13 2021, 12:31 pm
amother [ Black ] wrote:
Not true. There are all types. Many would.

I was just surprised that Shterny explained being dressed up as part of her creativity/fashion, rather than dressing up for the Shabbos Queen..And also that we promote dressing up at home for the husbands. Looking your best does not have to breach on modesty.


She was being honest. I think her answer was authentic. For her to say she dressed that way in honor of Shabbos would have been fake. She probably dresses stylishly during the week as well. Of course she was dressed well in honor of shabbos but he was speaking specifically about the modern fashion. It was modern without being immodest.
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amother




Aquamarine
 

Post  Wed, Jan 13 2021, 12:49 pm
nchr wrote:
It was interesting to watch, but it was just as foreign to me as to all the non Jewish people out there. I've never seen a seuda that looks like this and at first I felt they were making choizek. Then I realized there are all different types of people out there trying their best. I really didn't like the child being kissed by the cleaner and I really cannot believe anyone allows that. Obviously the kids were wild because the atmosphere was that type and I don't see the educational value here for non Jewish watchers because it's wasn't offering any knowledge about what Shabbos is and looked like camp to me but it's better PR than some of the other stuff out there.


I cannot disagree more with this comment. This shabbos seuda looked and felt very familiar to me, as my Seudos looks similar when we have guests, and this is also similar to the shabbos meals I grew up with, as well as by my in laws. I have also been tl other people's houses as a guest which seemed very similar to this. The only difference is that my house is way less fancy, and I use a plastic tablecloth over my white one 😂. Oh, and I don't serve such fancy food. (The food looked amazing). But I do serve in abundance and the general atmosphere is the same.
Regarding the child being kissed by the housekeeper, I can hear that point and respect it. But on the other hand, sometimes the cleaner is a warm person who gravitates towards the kids, and the kids to her. That can happen in any home. There are some homes where the cleaner is treated like a servant and others where she is treated as almost part of the family. Obviously in this family, the cleaner is treated as a person who is close to the family.
The part about your post with which I disagree the most is the part where you said there is no educational value. Aderaba, every moment of this film was educational. Peter came away with many surprising observations, such as that the Shabbos meal wasn't a stiff, formal affairs he had expected, but rather a joyous, fun, enjoyable family time. Yes we have "rituals", but it didn't detract from the atmosphere. Besides for the educational value in being able to get the feel of the Shabbos meal, there were many points of clarification, about Shabbos, and general hanhagos made by Shloime and Peter throughout the video.
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amother




Gold
 

Post  Wed, Jan 13 2021, 12:53 pm
She’s obviously more than a cleaner...probably a live in or full-time nanny/housekeeper.
These children clearly have a relationship and attachment with this woman.
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amother




Silver
 

Post  Wed, Jan 13 2021, 12:53 pm
amother [ Aquamarine ] wrote:
She was being honest. I think her answer was authentic. For her to say she dressed that way in honor of Shabbos would have been fake. She probably dresses stylishly during the week as well. Of course she was dressed well in honor of shabbos but he was speaking specifically about the modern fashion. It was modern with being immodest.

Shterny was being honest. She likes fashion as do many women out there.
I wouldn't say she's dressed typical for a lubavitch women- look at the picture of the shluchos at the yearly convention.
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