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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Shabbos, Rosh Chodesh, Fast Days, and other Days of Note

Man with a pan

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amother

Burlywood

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 8:39 am

I actually think the meals are pretty traditional! All mention challah, some type of fish, usually soup, and chicken or meat with assorted sides. Usually cholent for lunch.
Nobody once has made a pareve or dairy meal.
And why is it less traditional to have roasted potatoes, say, than kugel? Same food, just prepared differently!

amother

Aquamarine

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 8:53 am

Omg!!!
I just realized I might not be Jewish!!!

Growing up (and I thought we were frum) we didn’t have gefilta fish or chulent.
My mom is allergic to fish and per my grandmother, chulent is what poor people eat, we eat roasts (ok, so she was a little snobby).

What kapparah do I do????

And this whole time I thought we had a nice Shabbos. We eat in together and in the dinning room-something we don’t do during the week.
Kiddush
Challah (no dips 😬)
An appetizer (usually soup -only soup we have during the week is leftovers, but could also be -either instead or in addition-fricassee, cute meat/chicken things, melon during the summer)
Chicken/turkeys and/or a brisket/pastrami roast
Roasted potatoes or a rice or any other starch
3-5 vegetables -roasted or something -oh no! No kugel!!!!
Zemirot/benching

Play a game/read....

Dessert

Who can mekarev and properly convert me?
What will I do about marrying off my children????

Lunch we don’t eat deli roll. I don’t believe in puff pastry or packaged meats (and to think we might have a pastrami roast - I know, I know!!!

PinkFridge

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 9:08 am

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

Is this the article?
https://mishpacha.com/column/man-with-a-pan/

Yes, it's a series.
And since I assume that by now someone from FF is reading this, let me save myself a letter.
They always showcase a recipe. And usually not the one I'm most curious about.

amother

Violet

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 10:14 am

Funny I never thought the meals were not traditional enough. What always looks strange to me is how many different things they make. My meals are much simpler than theirs. Shout out to the mishpacha editors here joining PinkFridge. Somehow you never give us the recipe I wanted from the man with a pan.

amother

Lemon

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 10:34 am

I did not read that article but we happened to have this discussion last week.

1) for all those with grandparents, the older the better, go ask them what their meal was on friday night and shabbos day as a kid - before America especially, some of you will have surprises

2) we looked in sefarim, the inyan is "elevated" "special". That changes with time. For many who do not care for certain things like gefilte fish, there is your answer

amother

Seashell

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 10:53 am

My brother was once featured as Man With a Pan. Nobody would ever call our family heimish. My mother is a Yekke and my father is a mix of Polish/Czech but not chassidish. We didn't grow up with chicken soup and cholent every Shabbos and certainly not fish or liver. There was no traditional menu at all. My mom likes to experiment.

I have a varied repertoire that I make for Shabbos. I also never make chicken soup or cholent or serve fish, but we always have some kind of soup both Friday night and Shabbos day (in a crockpot for lunch) and some variety of protein, starch, and vegetable.

amother

Mustard

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 11:01 am

My kids always tell dh that he should write for man with a pan!
At the beginning of my last pregnancy he began cooking for shabbos in order to help me, and also the only other option was to buy food and he didn't want to.
So in the beginning, he experimented alot. His family are all great cooks and he grew up eating different cuisines long before it was the trend. He introduced us to so many different dishes and he also found that he really enjoys cooking, alot more than me! At this point he still cooks alot of shabbos, although he doesn't experiment as much but he does introduce sth new every month or so.
The funny thing until then he was always so 'makpid' on 'traditional' foods like gefilte fish, cholent, chicken soup, egg every week. Now that he cooks the only thing he insists on is the chicken soup, otherwise he is more than happy to have alternatives for the other courses. We haven't had gefilte fish in months! But we've had every other fish type. The 'cholent' is different every week, on rotation. Although a white tablecloth is still non-negotiable to him.

zaq

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 11:06 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

I don't recall anything in the Shulchan Aruch that says that gefilte fish and cholent are min har Sinai. I'm pretty sure they didn't have fancy plastic disposable plastic plates back then, either.

.

This. Although garlic and onion date back to our days of slavery in Egypt, chopped liver apparently does not. Tradition is good; hidebound tradition that never changes one iota is not. In fact, Jewish food is always evolving. Read The Book of Jewish Food by Claudia Roden for a fascinating overview of Jewish food traditions from all over the globe. As we move from place to place, we adapt our cooking to the foods and cooking methods that are plentiful wherever we are.

The mitzvah is not to eat gefilte fish and cholent; it's to eat special things that one enjoys and that are a cut above what one eats during the week . For my grandfather, who was poor and lived on beans and potatoes all week, cholent or anything else with beans or potatoes was unfit for the Shabbat table, no matter how many Michelin stars the chef had earned. To me mashed potatoes, corn and pasta are the epitome of weekday foods, but I don't criticize people who serve them on Shabbat. OTOH, chuchuka, an everyday Moroccan tomato-and-red-pepper spread that takes hours to cook, is not something I would bother with for a weekday meal. Things that require a lot of patchkerai or long cooking times are strictly for Shabbat in my house (and not very often).

There are multiple Jewish traditions. While it's nice be loyal to your own tradition, it's also nice to adopt a culinary idea or two from other communities. Food is the great equalizer, and learning something of someone else's cookery is a sign of respect and connection. I have been planning for some time to go through Claudia Roden's book and learn how to make at least one food from each community she mentions. This may prove difficult because many ingredients are not readily available here, or are available but not with a hechsher, but I intend to do my best.

More important than the specific menu at the Shabbat table is the atmosphere of peace, companionship, celebration, elevation and contrast with the work week. And even these don't need a single set formula, but can be achieved in different ways for different people. What matters is that whatever you use, it should be better and different from what you use during the week, so that it feels special to you and your family. If that's different from what feels special to your neighbors, so be it.

amother

Blonde

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 11:12 am

I once met an elderly Italian Jew who waxed lyrical about the traditional Friday night dinner that his grandmother made. It was meat lasagna, with artichokes on the side. To him, that was the taste of shabbos.

My family eats some traditional Ashkenazi food (including cholent every week of the year) but that's our choice.

Your best kosher food is shabbos food, whatever it happens to be.

amother

Wheat

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 11:29 am

I'm chassidish, so our meals are pretty traditional, but I agree that not every inyan is a halacha, and everyone has different traditions.

I do take exception to the no-chulent part because as far as I know it's a pretty strong minhag from way back to eat something warm Shabbos day to differentiate us from the Tzedukim/Karaim. But it doesn't say anywhere that it has to include beans, barley, flanken, and/or potatoes.

I also think the column is repetitive. How many times can I read that he started on Wed or Thurs and that his wife and kids liked it, and that this recipe he got from XYZ.

amother

Burlywood

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 11:38 am

Cholent is traditional depending on the your family background. My German grandparents never had cholent. They had a sort of soup (I forget the name)

cbsp

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 11:43 am

Gefilte fish as well has a halachic background - the idea is that you shouldn't have to be over on borer when picking out the bones from the fish.

I'm not saying that it needs to be at the table halachically but rather that is the reason for the tradition.

watergirl

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 11:45 am

amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:

Cholent is traditional depending on the your family background. My German grandparents never had cholent. They had a sort of soup (I forget the name)

Grunkern soup. Its the shabbos soup.

Last edited by watergirl on Wed, Jan 13 2021, 11:47 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Aquamarine

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 11:46 am

amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:

Cholent is traditional depending on the your family background. My German grandparents never had cholent. They had a sort of soup (I forget the name)

Greenkern (definitely misspelled)
As I said, my grandmother said chulent was for poor people.

amother

Blonde

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 11:47 am

amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:

Cholent is traditional depending on the your family background. My German grandparents never had cholent. They had a sort of soup (I forget the name)

Grünkern soup.

Blessing1

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 11:48 am

English3 wrote:

It's really interesting BC some people don't even use a white shabbos tablecloth but I guess just the shabbos lecht with the dishes and zemiros makes an atmosphere as well

A white tablecloth isn't halacha! Many many people don't use a white tablecloth. We're chassidish and I have a gold tablecloth. My mom & MIL don't use a solid white tablecloth either. So many people don't use a white tablecloth.
And I think chalont is a chassidish food and the non chassidish eat chalont because they like it. Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
We also don't eat fish at the morning meal, many people don't eat fish in the morning.

keym

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 11:49 am

amother [ Wheat ] wrote:

The minhag is not cholent, rather something hot. So cholent, soup, hot pastrami, meatballs. Anything cooking in a crockpot, blech, warmer overnight follows the minhag.
We've skipped all hot food in the summer- just cold fish, deli, salads. But my husband will make sure to have a tea or coffee for something hot.

keym

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 11:55 am

Blessing1 wrote:

My very Litvishe grandfather was shmoozing with my husband's Galicianer grandfather at my Shabbos sheva brachos.
My grandfather said in Lita, they (and most in his villages) were dirt poor. They ate cholent of potatoes, beans, onions, and a bone or scrap of meat lkovod Shabbos. Cholent was cheap.
My husband's grandfather said that in Galicia, most people in their villages would refuse to eat cholent. They could afford to eat meat, goose liver, fish- they were proud of being rich enough to feed their family "real food" and not cholent. It was a tremendous ego thing not to serve cholent- it meant you made it in the world.

Blessing1

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 11:56 am

keym wrote:

Wow, this is interesting.

yamaha

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 11:56 am

Blessing1 wrote:

The actual recipe for cholent (beans, barley, meat, potatoes) has ashkenazi origin, but the idea of eating something hot is accepted across the board. I imagine it had to do with which foods were available at the time in that region.

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