Series on chassidim s/o, diff types of chassidim

amother

Fri, Jan 15 2021, 10:31 am

Revafe wrote:

Love this!
Question. Why does it matter? What's the point of this thread? Every single community, group, religion or any other segment of society have sub group and subgroups amd are nuanced and vary place by place.
The groups the op mentioned are so not fact. Different people see themselves differently.
Try telling a chabad shaliach that he's not the "real" chassid!
This is so pointless.
We are all children of one father, united in our collective mission to bring about Hashems greatness, to actualize our potential, to be Hashems Ambassador in the world.
Everyone has different path to achieve the above.
We're all doing the exact same thing, just using different tools.

What's the point of this thread? Great question! Please allow me to explain, and at the same time answer to a few other comments here.
Firstly, to those that keep saying there should be more categories, etc, why are they in boxes, I said from the very first post that these are VERY broad categories. You may fit into more than one. I broke them up into these three because I do think that the chassidim in group A have many similarities, although the nuances may be worlds apart. I listed the similarities, which basically include external and social factors.

Here's the main point of this thread: I have been around all three groups and it is interesting to me to find that many of these people don't view others as chassidish. If you read the recent threads, there were references made to what "regular" chassidim do or don't do. They clearly dont view some of the people in the videos as "regular chassidish" whereas those people do 100% consider themselves chassidish.
It's a matter of identity.
I think it's interesting to learn from other people and to learn that your worldview is limited to what you are exposed to.
Growing up, some people who are very secluded may think that if a woman wears pants, she is for sure not Jewish. Or if a man wears a "chup", he cannot be a yerie shimayim. Or if a person has a shaved beard he cannot be chassidish. Some adults even think that.
So in the series in chassidim, it was eye opening to see that there are many jews of many different styles that identify as chassidish. There is a world of nuance and variety.
The point of this thread is to shed a bit of light on this multicultural family that we are part of. I think it's good to learn about other jews and how they serve Hashem in their own way.

amother

Pearl

Fri, Jan 15 2021, 10:36 am

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

Lubavitch and Breslov very much believe that their path is the only true religious path.
I have seen Lubavitcher and Breslovers try to “convert” people to their derech, which the other chassidim don’t believe that way.
They believe that their are many derachim and every Jewish soul has their own path of finding Hashem.

And many Lubavitcher chasidim (if not most but don’t pounce on me) would not marry out of Chabad.

watergirl

Fri, Jan 15 2021, 10:36 am

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

This quote is projecting Breslov Beliefs onto other Chassidus. You don’t even notice but you make it clear that you believe your path is the right path.

This quote is projecting nothing but my own opinion, actually. You seem to want to read things into my posts. Please, when reading things, do not project your OWN thoughts into what people are writing. Read only what is written and take that at face value. I do not write with projections.

And my opinion regarding the post you quoted (which stated that chassidus is all about making restrictions) is that no, chassidus is not ALL about making restrictions. I will say it again and again. There is SO MUCH MORE to chassidus than restrictions.

Edited to add - I am posting under my username, amother Jade. I am ending this conversation with you here because it really is derailing this thread but I am happy to continue via pm. I would love to know who I am talking to.

Last edited by watergirl on Fri, Jan 15 2021, 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Fri, Jan 15 2021, 10:38 am

Amelia Bedelia wrote:

Op, I think you really categorized them well. Very impressive! Of course there are exceptions, and we all know people who don't fit into any of those categories.

Many chassiduses that fit in Category A are more open-minded than others. Some are more open to technology, more open to women driving, don't have restrictions for women's hair (shaving)or wigs. Belz, Satmar, Viznitz, Rachmastrivka, Skver are more extreme than others.

Most chassidish girls' schools do teach chumash inside, with the exception of Satmar and possibly Viznitz. Some chassidish girls' schools actually give them an excellent education, on par to many Bais Yaakov schools, for example, Bobov. Most chassidish women do not study chassidus. Lubavitch is unique in that aspect.

Stolin is more of a litvish chassidus. Sounds like an oxymoron, but they can easily be confused with yeshivish individuals. Many old-timers don't wear shtreimlach, although apparently it's more accepted today. They speak English, use litvish havara, and don't have many of the restrictions other chassiduses have.

Ger is also unique.

Lubavitch, unlike other chassidim, embraces technology. They are very open to the internet and using smartphones for positive purposes, such as learning Torah and kiruv purposes. OP, you could tell that that camp you applied to was Lubavitch from their pronunciation of "chassidish". Most chassidim pronounce the word "chaseedish" while Chabad pronounces it "chass-ih-dish".

Thank you Amelia Bedilia.
I think many posters here either misunderstood my point or read into it in a way that misconstrued my intent.
Again, I'll say this again, there are exceptions and many people who dont fit in anywhere. And you are explaining what I alluded to with Stollin.

For the record, that camp I applied to, the lady actually pronounced the word chasseedish, not cha- si-dish.

Mommyg8

Fri, Jan 15 2021, 10:39 am

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

The original Chassidim very definitely tried to "convert" frum Jews to their derech, so in this respect perhaps Chabad and Breslov are indeed the most authentic.

bernadette

Fri, Jan 15 2021, 10:39 am

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

Vien was a kehilla until very recently when chassidim started sending to their school. They have no chassidishe lineage or connection to any previous chassidish Rebbe.

I “officially” come from a Viener home. My father/grandparents would go to a rebbe or to a tisch, they would even daven Shabbos on a chassidish shul. However, no shtreiml, peyos are behind the ears. My father doesn’t trim his beard, my zeides had no beard. They don’t follow shittas that chassidim have. We know Yiddish, but we only use it when spoken to in Yiddish. Maybe now we speak Yiddish to younger children, not to older children. My brother has a shtreiml and he does speak more Yiddish than everyone else, because all his friends are like that. His wife/ me and my sisters/mother, we look more modern than a chassidish woman.
We don’t fit into any category? My father and brother are accountants. 2 of my sisters have degrees.

Amelia Bedelia

Fri, Jan 15 2021, 10:41 am

bernadette wrote:

Today practically all women have degrees, lol. Even shpitzel clad Satmar women get special ed degrees.

amother

Fri, Jan 15 2021, 10:43 am

bernadette wrote:

Vien is not officially a chassidus. It doesnt fit into any category.
In the last 20 years or so, vien has begun to look more like a chassidus because they are based in Williamsburg and borough park.

amother

Jade

Fri, Jan 15 2021, 10:44 am

watergirl wrote:

Well what should I say if all Breslov people I talk to share this opinion with me?
Other chassidim believe chassidish beliefs and restrictions to oneself go hand in hand.
(Example Reb Elimelech of Lizhensk)
You can’t seem to accept it as a valid belief.
I respect the Breslov belief. Why can’t you accept others as valid?

amother

Fri, Jan 15 2021, 10:49 am

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

In a way 3 groups is true for every kind of society.
There will always be the right, the left, and the center, with people falling into many categories in between.
In this specific instance, she catogarized them by level of integration into society.

Ok so I think you misunderstood my OP. I was definitely not talking about the right, left and center. I dont think we are talking about levels of integration so much either.
I am talking about identity.
Especially in the category of lubavitch ,you will have right left and center. My point was simply that those in category A will admit that other chassidim in their category are chassidish, even if they are of a different chassidus. But they will not consider the people in other groups "chassidish".

thunderstorm

Fri, Jan 15 2021, 10:52 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

That’s a very interesting observation. But I would think people in category C would acknowledge that all 3 groups are Chasidish.

watergirl

Fri, Jan 15 2021, 10:52 am

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

You want to believe that the one and only thing to other chassiduses is restrictions? Nothing else? Ok.

Looking forward to continuing this conversation via pm.

amother

Jade

Fri, Jan 15 2021, 11:06 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

They will consider them chassidish, but left.
Satmar is considered right, other center, and Lubavitch Left.