Do masks save lives?

smss

Sun, Jan 17 2021, 4:56 pm

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

I saw a good saying on someone's mask

I wear this because I'm forced not out of fear

We should all be afraid of unwittingly causing the sickness or death of another person.

I think seatbelts is a great metaphor in many ways. You're not being asked (in most cases, except places where the widespread lack of masking & SDing has caused outbreaks beyond what the healthcare system can handle) to stay home and never go anywhere. (We drive cars even though there are risks involved.) You're being asked to minimize the risks - only go where you really need to, mask up, SD and wash your hands. (Wear a seatbelt!)

Now the interesting thing that many people don't know is that YOU not wearing a seat belt doesn't just put you in danger, it puts everyone else in danger too. In the event of a crash an unbelted person would become a projectile. Their body would go flying at great speed and force and could crush others in the car.

You can be unafraid for yourself (well really, you shouldn't, ונשמרתם מאד and all that but that's between you and G-d)... you don't get to put others in danger.

SixOfWands

Sun, Jan 17 2021, 6:37 pm

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

To answer your question. Covid spreads via aerosolized droplets that are several times small than the smallest holes in the best masks. What we know is that heavy droplets fall, while the smaller, aerosolized covid droplets linger in the air for longer and are more likely to infect someone else.

That's clearly inaccurate. The overwhelming majority of transmission of coivd is via large respiratory droplets as conclusively demonstrated by contact tracing studies, cluster investigations, the lack of infection spread in hospital settings with universal masking protocols and the low estimated.

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, Jan 17 2021, 8:55 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

I think your reasoning is flawed because many people in CA are indeed following the rules. So if even 40% are following, why are they haven't it worse than states with no rules at all?

And what about Israel, Italy, France, and Spain? They've all had huge surges well after various restrictions were mandated. How would explain that?

CA amother here...
And no, most people aren't following the rules 100%. Shuls are open and not all are outdoors/SD. Private Schools aren't requiring/enforcing the mask rules. Families are in the park and not only are kids not masked, their parents aren't masked. People aren't covering their noses. People walking around without masks. People having guests over. And this is what I personally saw in the last week. Frum community and not Jewish/frum community.
How many people I know are keeping this strictly? Us, one neighbor who is elderly, my parents. 1 coworker. Out of how many families I see or know???

It is hard here to be strictly social distancing because "we aren't in this together". Because so few are being strict about this.
Because our government officials have been caught breaking the rules. Pelosi got her hair done when she asked for an appointment at a salon that was supposed to be closed. Newsom (Governor) had an indoor meal at a super fancy restaurant with way too many people. Local officials voted to close down outdoor dining and they were seen AT OUTDOOR RESTAURANTS right before they were shut down. I could go on... So many government officials in our state have broken their own rules plus what we see from other states. They made exceptions for truly non essential activities like television production and had catering bring food and outdoor dining right near restaurants that were closed because 10 feet away it was dangerous. They promoted protests this past summer that weren't socially distanced and not everyone wore masks. The county testing services was found to use faulty tests. They closed some schools down but allowed certain math camps and specialized programs to open. One of the first schools to open was the one our Governor sends his kids to. The LA teachers union said they wouldn't come back to in person classes, even if safe, until the government agreed to things that had nothing to do with COVID 19- they were using the virus as an excuse to shut down charter schools.
So while we are keeping ourselves shut in, so many people are using the hypocrisy and biases of the government to say "who cares! It can't be that bad if they allow X or Y"
So many people don't even try.
We do but we are so alone.

invisiblecircus

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 7:31 am

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

To demonstrate that masks and other restriction are effective, we'd compare countries like Italy that have had strict enforcement of restrictions and mask mandates for 6 months with countries like the US which don't have mask mandates or other restrictions. Unfortunately many countries (such as Italy) have had huse surges often coinciding with stricter covid rules. It's hard to explain but it is a fact.

The restrictions in Italy have been tightened as a response to rise in the number of cases and the availablilty of hospital/ intensive care beds. It's not that the restrictions were arbitrarily increased and THEN the number of cases rose. Restrictions are tighter in some regions with fewer cases because there are fewer hospital beds availble there.

Also, the number of cases rose rapildy in September/ October partly because conditions at that time of year were more favourable for the virus to spread but also because there was a massive increase in testing. Initially, the only people being testsed were those who were hospitalised which was obviously only a small percentage of the people who actually caught the virus. Now with wider testing, even asymptomatic cases are being detected and recorded.

Last edited by invisiblecircus on Mon, Jan 18 2021, 7:43 am; edited 1 time in total

invisiblecircus

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 7:42 am

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

And the masks I bought came with a warning saying that they dont protect anyone from coronavirus which is further proof that its just a placebo. Banging head

Which masks did you buy?

The regular surgical masks do not give the wearer much /any protection against Covid if they are exposed to it but they DO greatly reduce the chance of an infected person from spreading the contagion, therefore, if everyone wears them and uses them properly, they certainly make difference.

The FFP2 masks (which is the only type of mask I wear) do provide some degree of protection to the wearer as well as also helping to prevent an infected person from infecting others. The FFP3 masks provide even greater protection.

Fabric masks do not offer protection to the wearer and are the least effective in preventing spread to others, but are still better than nothing if washed regularly.

DrMom

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 8:15 am

This is a very methodological study of the effectiveness of various types of facemasks:
https://hartfordhealthcare.org.....d=395

The article obviously has text and explanations, but the figures are the upshot of the findings.

1. Fitted N95, no valve (14 in photo)
2. 3-layer surgical mask (1)
3. Cotton-polypropylene-cotton mask (5)
4. 2-layer polypropylene apron mask (4)
5. 2-layer cotton, pleated style mask (13)
6. 2-layer cotton, pleated style mask (7)
7. Valved N95 mask (2)
8. 2-layer cotton, Olson style mask (8)
9. 1-layer Maxima AT mask (6)
10. 1-layer cotton, pleated style mask (10)
11. 2-layer cotton, pleated style mask (9)
12. Knitted mask (3)
13. Double-layer bandana (12)
14. Gaiter-style neck fleece (11)