Men - women office dynamics

amother

Beige

Tue, Jan 19 2021, 2:59 am

I grew up frum and have only ever worked in corporate American offices.
I was always the only woman wearing a skirt (always had very casual dress codes) and I never had a problem with inappropriate behavior fron coworkers.
First of all, even in the late 90s (when I began my career) there were s*xual harrassment policies.
We were all friendly and nothing crossed any lines.
Even when I was single, my coworkers always knew I would only date Jewish guys. In fact one time my colleague tried to set me up with a reform guy that he had met Smile

I always got along with all my colleagues and had their utmost respect for my religious beliefs.

amother

Denim

Tue, Jan 19 2021, 4:57 am

I've worked in non-Jewish very large companies for many, many years.
I was a cute younger single, a newly married, a middle-aged woman and,now, an older woman.
I've never had a problem dealing with men. Some seemed to be interested but they'd listen and back off when I told them not interested.
There was one that I remember that didn't pick up cues, but he was socially off regardless. And basically harmless if annoying.
Bottom line, in my experience, if you don't want something to happen, it won't.
And if it does, HR is there to enforce the laws.

imaima

Tue, Jan 19 2021, 6:21 am

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

This happens more in a frum workplace??? This is a frum forum so obviously you're only hearing frum workplace stories. And more people who have such issues are clicking on this thread. Of course this happens PLENTY in any office where men and women are working close together.
And for those people saying this only happens because frum people don't know how to interact with the opposite gender.....urmm no, there's a reason a lot of secular offices and colleges and you name it have sequal harassment in place!!!!!

Have you read the other answers? Many people worked or work in non-Jewish offices here.
Most of the times without an issue.
It's a shame that many frum offices don't have "zxual harassment" [prevention rules] in place.

amother

Turquoise

Tue, Jan 19 2021, 6:56 am

My non Jewish boss in a huge non Jewish company seksually harrassed me for 8 months until he voluntarily left the position for a better one. He told me straight out not to go to HR because they wouldn’t believe a new employee over him. He was absolutely right. It didn’t get me anywhere. zxual harassment policies are worthless if you aren’t believed, or if HR is not interested in pursuing the claim if your boss is more valuable to the company than you.

amother

Scarlet

Tue, Jan 19 2021, 7:00 am

HonesttoGod wrote:

Lastly, I DID grow up frum, I said I didn't grow up in a frum community - as in not a typical tri state area community. I DID grow up frum. But even if I didn't, the derogatory way to which you respond to that sentence is absolutely disgusting and I hope you never say something like that to someone who is not FFb.

Not going to continue disagreeing about something like this online its too hard to get a point across, like the way you seemed to think I told you that you grew up not frum. I wasn't talking about you. How should I know how you grew up and why would I mention it? I didn't.

amother

Dodgerblue

Tue, Jan 19 2021, 7:14 am

amother [ Turquoise ] wrote:

Nothing is perfect, and there will always be cases that fall between the cracks. (Incidentally, did you consider recording his overtures? Saving texts? Or was it all non-verbal?)

The point is that in most offices, the mentality has changed. People are scared for their jobs, and most people aren't going to risk their career to get some kicks out of seeing a female employee cringe.

amother

Beige

Tue, Jan 19 2021, 7:25 am

amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:

This. We recently had an issue in my company (BH did not involve me but I am in upper management so I was made aware). It was with a client and an employee so we could not bring charges or anything like that but that client was cut off immediately. He kept saying "what's the big deal?" We told him we have a zero tolerance policy towards this.
The employee had proof and of course we believed her.
Most normal people would not risk their job to harass a woman.

sushilover

Tue, Jan 19 2021, 7:38 am

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

How is this not victim blaming? Please clarify.

amother

Silver

Tue, Jan 19 2021, 7:43 am

sushilover wrote:

How is this not victim blaming? Please clarify.

Sometimes people make friendly overtures because they want to take the relationship to a different place. But when the other party signals that s/he isn't interested, that's almost always the end of the story.

We can't always express things in terms of men versus women, as though there's a constant battle to fend off predators. Sometimes people do want to get to know each other better, and work is a perfectly reasonable place to meet someone. Yet reasonable adults understand "no thanks" and move on.

watergirl

Tue, Jan 19 2021, 8:02 am

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

We have never taken a poll here to my knowledge, of how many of us working women work in frum offices/workplaces vs. who works in secular ones. Just because this is a frum site does not imply most of us work in frum places. You may not realize that the frum office is a phenomenon mainly in Israel/NY/NJ. This is an international site, so many of us live elsewhere and make a living in many kinds of places. To add my personal experience, the workplace I am now in is the first secular place I've worked and it is FAR more professional and free of inappropriate conduct than the frum places I have worked. In many ways, this is the best job I've ever had, most of them in terms of how we are treated here vs. in the frum places (which have all been schools or nonprofits, actually). It's a sad cultural commentary. None of my frum places were chassidish or even very yeshivish - just plain frum - but the line seems to be more drawn and professional where I am now in many ways.

Now, posting as a mod: in your replies to people on this thread, you are coming across very aggressively and rudely. If you are going to continue on this thread, please reread how you are typing and reconsider how you want to come across.

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

Flirting has nothing to do with how snobby you are or how easy you are to get into bed. Nor does it matter if you get freaked out. Well, maybe for this thread it does since you seem to think that secular offices are less flirtatious based on the fact that yoi don't get freaked out by you look nice today. That IS flirting. And don't give me any of that oh its just regular talk which you don't get because you grew up frum.

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

amother

Brunette

Tue, Jan 19 2021, 8:56 am

sushilover wrote:

How is this not victim blaming? Please clarify.

She didn't say that if something happens it's your fault. She said that if you want to make sure nothing happens (ie prevention) you can. I agree in most cases, aside from serious predatorial cases. If you show complete disinterest from the beginning, you're basically a non starter. This won't stop someone with evil intentions, but it certainly prevents the escalation of casual friends to relationship status.