Schools and advenium

amother

Lilac

Thu, Feb 18 2021, 7:56 pm

I am an employee at Advenium in Monsey.
I run one of their popular workshops. I dont have a degree in mental health nor any certification yet I am requested and expected to incorporate mental health techniques and lessons into my classes. I dont.
I fill out an assessment on every client after each class.
They clients have to have an intake session with a social worker, get a diagnosis (PTSD, Anxiety, Depression etc..) in order for Advenium to bill their insurance for services.
Mostly Fidelis.
I personally dont know why people would want to go through the entire hassle and headache and get their child or themselves diagnosed (most are not mentally ill) instead of just paying the $20-$30 a week for the classes in a Sunday program, talent school etc.. but to each their own.

amother

Peach

Thu, Feb 18 2021, 8:12 pm

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

Wow. This is next level crazy. Do you understand what you're writing? You are basically writing a session note, which a licensed mental health professional is signing off on. Thus, they are committing fraud by signing off for session that they were not present by. Meaning, whoever is signing off on these notes is committing a crime that can potentially jeopardize their licensure. I'm sure that on some level, should government or insurance find out, you too may be held liable in some way.

I knew that advenium was doing some shady things but I did not think that they would go that low. I'm glad you clarified and I will know to stay away and let my school know what is happening as well.

amother

Emerald

Thu, Feb 18 2021, 8:25 pm

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

I want to clarify, becuase I never like to post on these chats, I was suffering from ppd (post-partum) Adveniums programs are real therapy, it worked for me. It is activities put together with lots of therapy guidance and information. I think anyone who thinks its a scam doesn't understand the importants of therapy. They have a new clinical director who is amazing

Who's the director?

amother

Seagreen

Thu, Feb 18 2021, 8:29 pm

The crazy thing is that they accept Medicaid based insurances but wouldn’t take my good ppo insurance.
Another thing keeping me back was the feeling that a group that’s free isn’t as serious as a group that people pay for. Somehow when you need to pay to join a group you value it more.

amother

Lawngreen

Thu, Feb 18 2021, 8:53 pm

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

how do u know that they need a diagnosis//?

amother

Peach

Thu, Feb 18 2021, 9:01 pm

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

how do you know that?

That's the basic premise of getting serviced in a clinic. If any therapist or clinic bills your insurance, they will need evidence that you need services in order for insurance to pay for said services. And in order to prove that there is a need, it necessitates an intake wherein based on your reported symptoms, a diagnosis is given. When going to a privately paid person, this is not necessary since your insurance isn't being billed.

cnc

Thu, Feb 18 2021, 9:04 pm

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

Because Advenium is not upfront with the way that they operate. When I spoke with them a while ago, they told me that all their providers are licensed (aka billable). Now, when I spoke with them and asked them who runs specific groups, they gave me some random names of young people that are looking to make some side money by basically running Sunday clubs for kids.

Advenium did a great job marketing themselves. They reached out to every school, doctor's office, home health service etc in the community and sold them a great shpiel. Even for the people that have a legitimate diagnosis (and trust me there are plenty), this is fraud. Children with dxs of ASD can benefit very much from group therapy in a certain concentration (art, music etc) by a licensed provider. However, although that is the way that Advenium marketed themselves originally, that is not actually the way they operate.

cnc

Thu, Feb 18 2021, 9:08 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

I also don't get how someone would jeopardize their license like that.

amother

Lawngreen

Thu, Feb 18 2021, 9:09 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

The reason I'm pushing the point is because I know of a course given recently covered on insurance with a dx of stress. I also know of a Sunday group in Monsey (not Advenium) that also provides activities with a dx of Social Skills deficit. My point is other places are doing it and I think that it is legitimate and a new type of service. At least I hope I'm right.

amother

Seagreen

Thu, Feb 18 2021, 9:15 pm

cnc wrote:

[/b]

Because Advenium is not upfront with the way that they operate. When I spoke with them a while ago, they told me that all their providers are licensed (aka billable). Now, when I spoke with them and asked them who runs specific groups, they gave me some random names of young people that are looking to make some side money by basically running Sunday clubs for kids.

Advenium did a great job marketing themselves. They reached out to every school, doctor's office, home health service etc in the community and sold them a great shpiel. Even for the people that have a legitimate diagnosis (and trust me there are plenty), this is fraud. Children with dxs of ASD can benefit very much from group therapy in a certain concentration (art, music etc) by a licensed provider. However, although that is the way that Advenium marketed themselves originally, that is not actually the way they operate.

They didn’t hide the fact that there were unlicensed people running groups. They sent out a booklet with the groups such as “dance therapy” “music therapy” run by people I knew were very sweet and talented dancers and artists but definately not therapists

amother

White

Thu, Feb 18 2021, 9:16 pm

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

I know someone (not a school aged child, and not in advenium) that had gotten a diagnosis of "adjusment disorder" or something like that. It basically means having a hard time adjusting to the situation they are in, and the diagnosis lasts for only 6 months. Insurance won't cover sessions for that after 6 months. It could be what they are using for the kids experiencing stresss adjusing to a new school year.

cnc

Thu, Feb 18 2021, 9:17 pm

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

There is no such disorder in the DSM. You can't bill for that as there is no dx for this.

Stress isn't either a disorder, but I can see how someone might try billing with a dx of adjustment disorder etc...

The definite fraud here, is that services are not provided by licensed professionals, and they're billing under someone else's name.