Please, please do your due research

amother

Hotpink

Mon, Jan 25 2021, 9:10 pm

As a licensed natural medicine practitioner, most people (including many of my patients) assume I would be against this vaccine but I am not! I am anxiously awaiting my turn to get vaccinated which should be coming up soon BH. In general I take a more measured approach to vaccinating: for example don't love the current crowded pediatric vax schedule. But this vaccine in question is arguably safer (lack of toxic preservatives, does not contain the actual virus) and more important (helllooooo global pandemic!).
The links below are some of the resources I have provided my skeptical patients to help them decide whether or not to receive the vaccine when it becomes available to them. Note that according to the first link, the Instagram interview with immunologist Dr. Zwickey, these initial mRNA vaccines should probably be avoided by those with autoimmune diseases and clotting disorders, but otherwise it's a risk:benefit scenario that must be weighed and most healthy adults should opt in, IMO.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CKAUMRbHCnC/
https://dr-noc.medium.com/covi.....034a0 Click on the full read (it’s long)
http://paulherscuepidemics.blo......html

Anon only bc if any of my patients are on ima they would surely recognize the links! These sources are scientifically credible AND come from experts in the integrative medicine world.

Chang

Mon, Jan 25 2021, 9:41 pm

I'd rather take the risk of the vaccination then the risk of covid. I trust my doctors. Same as I'd rather take the risk of the polio and other vaccinations then actually get polio etc.
I have a friend who is 26 years old ( Chaya shifra bas naomi) fighting for her life in ICU right now BC of covid. I have neighbors who had covid who are still davening in the parking lot BC they are too weak to walk to shul 5 minutes away. Young adults. People are dying left right and center. The hospitals have no more beds.
Yes maybe the vaccination hasn't been tested enough but I'll take my chances. I'll do my hishtadlut.

DrMom

Mon, Jan 25 2021, 10:32 pm

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

Again this is unknown. Israel's rates are going up, hospitals are overflowing despite what is it now, a third of the population? getting the vaccine. Many people report getting very sick with covid after taking the vaccine. The possibility that the vaccine is playing a role in this has not been ruled out.

You are mixing up a lot of factors all together.

1. A study done by one of Israel's 4 HMOs showed that <0.016% of their members who got both shots contracted covid. That is certainly not "many people."
https://www.jpost.com/health-s.....6678. So it does not seem likely that davka those who are vaccinated are contributing to the high caseload.

2. About 45% of the population has received the vaccination, but a much smaller fraction has received both doses. I think the number of citizens who received both doses is still <1M. So we're getting there, but it takes time.

3. Israel's rates are going up because of the very aggressive UK virus variant, which is ~60-70% more contagious (and some estimate 30% more deadly) than the "regular" covid virus. Studies show that this variant is responsible for ~40% of recent cases. The vaccines are shown to be effective against this variant, but as I noted in #2, most of us haven't gotten our 2nd shot yet.

amother

Cyan

Tue, Jan 26 2021, 1:37 am

DrMom wrote:

In a country with over 9 million people, how does 2.6 million who have had any doses translate into 45% of the population?

We did cross the 1m mark for those vaccinated with the second dose.

amother

Dodgerblue

Tue, Jan 26 2021, 10:15 am

amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:

Thank you for sharing that. I wish you could put your name on it but I understand.

So even according to you if people suffer from things like for example asthma, allergies, autoimmune disorder, history of epipen use, history of concerning vaccine reactions, low platelets this is a big no-no, they just have to keep taking precautions seriously?

But if there is no concerning medical history you feel measured against the pandemic it is a worthwhile risk? How do you feel that the mrna biotech has never made it out of stage 4 trials due to ade and the risk that might carry? Are you confident based on something that they solved the ade problem?

amother

Dodgerblue

Tue, Jan 26 2021, 10:17 am

Chang wrote:

Can I ask which country you live in?

amother

Seashell

Tue, Jan 26 2021, 1:46 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

So no citation.

A person who violates group rules by posting anonymously without revealing personal information is asking people to ignore published medical experts because she spoke with "experts" whom she doesn't identify who say that maybe there is some risk. But can't explain why.

This makes no sense. You're asking for citation on studies that were never performed.

Please. If you've seen studies showing that ADE or anything else are not risks, do share. If you decide the lack of such studies doesn't bother you, that's your choice obviously.

But let's not misrepresent the safety studies that were NOT performed.

amother

Seashell

Tue, Jan 26 2021, 1:49 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

I disagree with your reading.

There are known side effects of HCQ. See https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/.....tails

The risk of those side effects is outweighed by their benefit in treating malaria, etc. But with questionable efficacy in treating covid, the side effects are more troubling. Particularly as they exacerbate the effects of covid.

Then what was the basis for the AMA's reversal of its position on doctors' being permitted to prescribe hcq off label?

It's not that they now agree it's effective, as they haven't stated that position. On what basis is the AMA no longer concerned about potential harm? No new studies that they've cited in support of their changed position.

amother

Seashell

Tue, Jan 26 2021, 1:51 pm

Amarante wrote:

Rare granted unless it happens to your child

https://www.wmcactionnews5.com.....vid-/

‘My worst nightmare’: Mother speaks after 11-year-old son suffers heart problems due to COVID-19

By KCCI Staff January 25, 2021 at 3:27 AM CST - Updated January 25 at 3:27 AM

CRESTON, Iowa (KCCI) -

An Iowa mother is warning others to take COVID-19 seriously after her 11-year-old son ended up in the hospital with a rare but potentially life-threatening complication from the virus.

Jaxson Green, 11, is now home and doing well, but in November, he was in the hospital after he caught a seemingly mild case of COVID-19. His mother, Heather Green, says at first, he was only sick for a couple days before he recovered and headed back to school.

Jaxson Green, 11, ended up in the cardiac intensive care unit, where doctors diagnosed him with myocarditis, after a seemingly mild case of COVID-19 in November.
Jaxson Green, 11, ended up in the cardiac intensive care unit, where doctors diagnosed him with myocarditis, after a seemingly mild case of COVID-19 in November. (Source: Green Family, KCCI via CNN)
The Greens thought the worst was over, but on Nov. 20, all of that changed.

“Before he went to bed, he told his dad he wasn’t feeling very good, and he had a low-grade fever,” Green said. “And that morning… he woke up grabbing his chest, telling his dad it hurt and he couldn’t breathe. He got a bloody nose. Jaxson described it as just gushing down his shirt, and he passed out.”

Jaxson ended up in the cardiac intensive care unit at Children’s Hospital and Medical Center in Omaha, Nebraska, where doctors diagnosed him with myocarditis, or inflammation of the heart muscle.

“They told me that he was in the beginning stages of heart failure. He was beginning to retain fluid, having a high fever. His heart rate was very fast. He was almost in a state of shock,” Green said. “It was the scariest thing I’ve ever been through.”

Dr. Melissa Cullimore, who treated Jaxson, says myocarditis is a rare but serious COVID-19 complication seen in children. It can be deadly because it causes the heart to not squeeze as well.

Jaxson is doing great now, but Cullimore says it’s unclear if he’ll have long-term complications because not enough is known about COVID-19.

“We are definitely concerned, but maybe we’re hopeful that the long-term complications won’t be as severe as we’re watching out for,” she said.

The 11-year-old is now part of a nationwide study led by Boston Children’s Hospital that is gathering data and running tests to figure out why certain children end up with severe complications from the virus. Jaxson did not have any pre-existing conditions.

Green says Jaxson’s ordeal has dramatically changed her outlook on COVID-19, and now, she is urging others to do their part.

“Before this happened to us, I truly thought it was more of a hoax,” she said. “Wear your masks when you’re out and about, properly, and maintain your social distancing.”

Of course, the same could be said of risks from the vaccine.

And as of today, the WHO is no longer recommending the vaccine for children due to unknown risks and possibly dangerous side effects.

amother

Seashell

Tue, Jan 26 2021, 2:00 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

As for posting as amother, I'm sure this doesn't need to be spelled out but if one takes an unpopular view on this site, you're ganged up on. One poster started out under her username but after she was personally attacked and called unintelligent and uneducated for expressing her views, she left the thread.

Funny enough, I've often debated against the anti-vaxers in vaccine threads. And I participated in those threads for the same reason I'm participating here.

amother

Seashell

Tue, Jan 26 2021, 2:11 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

I wrote that 1. Hydroxychloroquine was not found to be effective in treating covid, which I appreciate sixofwands providing links to support. And 2. As with all drugs, there are some serious side effects. Since it's not an effective treatment, there is no justification for giving a medication that can cause harm via serious side effects.

Here is some discussion of side effects in trials with covid:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p.....4983/
https://jamanetwork.com/journa.....72922
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov.....d.pdf

But what happened is more than the AMA simply not thinking it's a good treatment based on available studies. The AMA directed physicians not to prescribe it even off-label. This was I believe an unprecedented step, and the policy was reversed based on no new data.

SixOfWands

Tue, Jan 26 2021, 2:24 pm

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

The off-label prescription, which was found not to be beneficial and which had potential side effects, was causing shortages for people who used the medication for indicated and necessary reasons.

I viewed it much like a view the MMR/autism hoax. Its not just that a whole bunch of people fell for something. its that it drew resources and research away from real treatments.