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Homeopathy, energy healing, craniosacral therapy, yoga
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Jan 24 2021, 10:12 pm
I just discovered so many issurim that I never knew about and I know frum world normalizes a lot of natural alternative remedies. Just wanted to open your eyes if you were unaware:

Just discovered that homeopathy is influenced by alchemy (ie concocting potions) ...it is not natural remedies but so intensely diluted formulas that have been effected by practitioners ...anyone have more info on this?

Also energy healing and many other alternative new age methods of healing are associated with kishuf/witchcraft...especially when there is no physical touch involved.

The talmid chocham I spoke to quoted Rav Dovid Feinstein and also the Steipler. Also if you ever read that book by Rabbi Rephoel Szmerla called alternative medicine in halacha..it is intentionally misleading and a false defense for energy healing... wherever there is room for profit-making there is potential for bias!

Also if you are doing yoga...a lot of the forms are based on avoda Zara and unless u r an expert on avoda Zara it's better to just stay away and use other forms of exercise for relaxation and stretching. Ask your Rav if it's ok.... And if hes not familiar find a Rav who is for this issue. (don't think most rabbonim practice yoga hehe)

I also thought accupuncture was just touching pressure points but in reality it is based on taoism which is avodah Zara.

Anyone knows more to elaborate on issurim?
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Jan 24 2021, 10:16 pm
Yeshiva University has a newsletter that's called Derech HaTeva - Yeshiva University that explores some of these ideas. Interesting to Google it and peruse.
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penguin




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 24 2021, 11:27 pm
There are different opinions about this.

Asking an allopathic doctor about chiropractic is like asking a Coke salesman about Pepsi.

Vehamevin yovin.
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amother




Smokey
 

Post Sun, Jan 24 2021, 11:43 pm
I’ve used many of these methods, and got a psak that I was allowed to. I am chassidish, for reference.

First of all, there is always room to be meikel for a refuah. If you ask a shaila about a specific case, I’d be surprised if they tell you it’s ossur.
Second of all, I don’t think it’s 100% clear that it’s Kishuf. Hashem put natural healing into the world... acupuncture for example, is bringing blood flow to different parts of your body, and not necessarily did the people who practice it use it dafka for Avoda zara.

Bottom line, ask a shaila on each specific case. These methods really helped me, more than traditional medicine, and I don’t think hashem wants a person to suffer
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amother




Emerald
 

Post Sun, Jan 24 2021, 11:45 pm
Craniosacral is based on a physical rhythm that is felt because of the spinal fluid. It isn't energy work at all (except most body workers eventually tune into energy because they touch so many physically its hard to keep it all separate forever)
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amother




Ivory
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 3:07 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:


The talmid chocham I spoke to quoted Rav Dovid Feinstein and also the Steipler. Also if you ever read that book by Rabbi Rephoel Szmerla called alternative medicine in halacha..it is intentionally misleading and a false defense for energy healing... wherever there is room for profit-making there is potential for bias!



On which basis do you say so? The book was reviewed by leading poskim in Eretz Yisrael, including Rav Mordechai Gross (author of Shiurei Shevet Halevi) and his beis din, who were appointed by Rav Elyashiv ztz”l to investigate the matter. His sefer was also reviewed by Rav Moshe Sternbuch, Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky, Rav Shmuel Fuerst, and several others.

YOu could read more here https://mishpacha.com/medical-or-magic/

Rabbi Belsky also wrote a book (I think a talmid of his wrote his teachings) called Shulchan Halevy on Alternative Medicine.
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amother




Plum
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 5:01 am
Op speak for yourself.
When you paint everything as assur, you lose credibility. I have found very positive outcomes from doing a few of those items you listed.
So don’t do it if you think it’s forbidden.
The rest of us can use these methods and become much better off. Absolute nonsense when everything is categorized as assur. You won’t convince those like me who greatly benefit from these.
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amother




Plum
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 5:07 am
Op I just have to add something because your post is so unbelievably ignorant.
I’ve used these methods for a variety of issues. Let me tell you about one. A few years ago I had terrible pain. I went to a few doctors. A neurologist wanted to put me on a medication that would help but it came with a terrible side effect of memory loss. I suppose since you only find mainstream medicine acceptable you would have advised me to go that route. But I looked for more answers to heal me and I found it. I did not go on this medication. I used instead a variety of what you ignorantly labeled as assur.
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amother




Vermilion
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 6:45 am
So interesting to hear this point of view

I'm thinking mainstream medicine is looking a lot like avoda zara. Looks like a religion
Lets not fight
healing is from Hashem
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 7:12 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I just discovered so many issurim that I never knew about and I know frum world normalizes a lot of natural alternative remedies. Just wanted to open your eyes if you were unaware:

Just discovered that homeopathy is influenced by alchemy (ie concocting potions) ...it is not natural remedies but so intensely diluted formulas that have been effected by practitioners ...anyone have more info on this?

Also energy healing and many other alternative new age methods of healing are associated with kishuf/witchcraft...especially when there is no physical touch involved.

The talmid chocham I spoke to quoted Rav Dovid Feinstein and also the Steipler. Also if you ever read that book by Rabbi Rephoel Szmerla called alternative medicine in halacha..it is intentionally misleading and a false defense for energy healing... wherever there is room for profit-making there is potential for bias!

Also if you are doing yoga...a lot of the forms are based on avoda Zara and unless u r an expert on avoda Zara it's better to just stay away and use other forms of exercise for relaxation and stretching. Ask your Rav if it's ok.... And if hes not familiar find a Rav who is for this issue. (don't think most rabbonim practice yoga hehe)

I also thought accupuncture was just touching pressure points but in reality it is based on taoism which is avodah Zara.

Anyone knows more to elaborate on issurim?


Why not go back to the talmid chochom you spoke to till you get clarity? (You don't need to report back here.)
I would also ask a knowledgeable posek you have a relationship with on a case by case basis, and stick with him.
I would trend to being uncomfortable with a number of these modalities but not all.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 8:23 am
amother OP wrote:

Quote:
[Just discovered that homeopathy is influenced by alchemy (ie concocting potions) ...it is not natural remedies but so intensely diluted formulas that have been effected by practitioners ...anyone have more info on this?

OP, do you actually know what homeopathy is? By the fact that you wrote what you did, I dont actually think so. There are no potions involved. A lot of natural products though.

Quote:
Also energy healing and many other alternative new age methods of healing are associated with kishuf/witchcraft...especially when there is no physical touch involved.

Witch craft? Really? Ive seen this done before by extremely religious people. There is no witch craft involved. Yes, there is no physical touch, but witch craft? Where are you getting this information from? It is totally off.

Quote:
The talmid chocham I spoke to quoted Rav Dovid Feinstein and also the Steipler. Also if you ever read that book by Rabbi Rephoel Szmerla called alternative medicine in halacha..it is intentionally misleading and a false defense for energy healing... wherever there is room for profit-making there is potential for bias!

Just like you think this book is intentionally misleading people, so too, whomever you asked about all of these things can also have an ulterior motive for giving you such not correct information.
Quote:

Also if you are doing yoga...a lot of the forms are based on avoda Zara and unless u r an expert on avoda Zara it's better to just stay away and use other forms of exercise for relaxation and stretching. Ask your Rav if it's ok.... And if hes not familiar find a Rav who is for this issue. (don't think most rabbonim practice yoga hehe)

again, it really depends how you use it. If you are not using yoga as a form of religion, it is literally just a wonderful way to stretch and move your body. And I know many nice religious men and women who practice yoga. Nothing wrong, at all.

Quote:
I also thought accupuncture was just touching pressure points but in reality it is based on taoism which is avodah Zara.

It is not based on taoism but was created by taoists. Its like saying something was created by jews, not the thing is jewish.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 8:36 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
amother OP wrote:

Quote:
[Just discovered that homeopathy is influenced by alchemy (ie concocting potions) ...it is not natural remedies but so intensely diluted formulas that have been effected by practitioners ...anyone have more info on this?

OP, do you actually know what homeopathy is? By the fact that you wrote what you did, I dont actually think so. There are no potions involved. A lot of natural products though.

Quote:
Also energy healing and many other alternative new age methods of healing are associated with kishuf/witchcraft...especially when there is no physical touch involved.

Witch craft? Really? Ive seen this done before by extremely religious people. There is no witch craft involved. Yes, there is no physical touch, but witch craft? Where are you getting this information from? It is totally off.


The basic principle is not to follow in certain pathways ("darkei Emori"). There are a number of alien forces some of these modalities call on; it's well-known that one has to do yoga carefully. Even people who agree with Rabbi Szmerla across the board accept the need to do the research to come to the conclusions he has.

There are people who have serious reservations about a lot of the modalities. Not all of them, though many modalities in that category are dismissed as naarishkeit.


Last edited by PinkFridge on Mon, Jan 25 2021, 10:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Plum
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 9:38 am
Op we are all made up of energy. Everything has energy. You’re saying energy is forbidden and you don’t realize how ignorant you sound. Hashem created the world like this. Of course we can use it for good.
Literally anything can be used for either good or bad.
Btw my uncle died from chemo. The treatment left him like a zombie and he eventually died from it. Not the cancer but the chemo. But all hail traditional medicine according to you.
Don’t hate on people who want other methods to heal. It has worked for me and other people I know who use them.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 10:30 am
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
Op we are all made up of energy. Everything has energy. You’re saying energy is forbidden and you don’t realize how ignorant you sound. Hashem created the world like this. Of course we can use it for good.
Literally anything can be used for either good or bad.
Btw my uncle died from chemo. The treatment left him like a zombie and he eventually died from it. Not the cancer but the chemo. But all hail traditional medicine according to you.
Don’t hate on people who want other methods to heal. It has worked for me and other people I know who use them.


I haven't researched alternative medicine so carefully but something that gives me pause is that apparently alternative treatment for cancer has to be tried early, and as an alternative, not a complement.
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amother




Ecru
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 11:28 am
PinkFridge wrote:
I haven't researched alternative medicine so carefully but something that gives me pause is that apparently alternative treatment for cancer has to be tried early, and as an alternative, not a complement.


Yes.
I actually knew someone who died of cancer because she went the alternative route and hadn't started the mainstream treatment early enough.
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amother




Plum
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 11:30 am
amother [ Ecru ] wrote:
Yes.
I actually knew someone who died of cancer because she went the alternative route and hadn't started the mainstream treatment early enough.


You think people doing chemotherapy all survive?
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 4:21 pm
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
You think people doing chemotherapy all survive?


Of course not.
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amother




Babyblue
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 4:47 pm
Western medicine and the scientific method have us thinking that only what can be seen and measured is what exists, and is real, and everything else is voodoo. But there are many other wisdoms in the world and there is nothing wrong with tapping into them. As to the fact that they aren’t “evidence based”, well, follow the money.
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amother




Natural
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 4:47 pm
Most people do not pasken like that OP. Using natural plants in orig form is just less sellable than drugs produced from ingredients in a lab. Energy is the entire field of physics & its subsets. Not witchcraft. There is no magic potions. And just because idol worshipping people use something does not make it a form of worship.

Western medicine is emergency medicine (abrupt, fast, cut, paste, throw out extra parts, infuse with toxic chemicals). Preventitive health is traditional eastern medicine ( gentle, subtle, not very quick, corrective use of things in nature).

Most people only first try eastern traditional medicine after western medicine is a fail at helping with something.

Even though worldwide there is more Drs practicing traditional eastern than western medicine.

There really is a time and place for both.

But there are a few people who hold like you. Minority.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 5:38 pm
My philosophy is "If you don't like it, don't do it. Just don't tell me how to manage my own health."

Zehu.
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