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Homeopathy, energy healing, craniosacral therapy, yoga
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amother




Rose
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 5:41 pm
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
You think people doing chemotherapy all survive?

No, but some do. Can't say the same for alternative health.
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Hashem_n_Farfel




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 5:44 pm
Sorry unrelated. Reminds me of that time when my sons head was an odd shape and my husband wanted to take our then 3 month old son to this “doctor” who SQUEEZES the baby’s head to a normal shape.

I’m glad we didn’t do it in the end (we anyway couldn’t afford 350-390$ therapy sessions.....) and over time our sons head became nice and round again.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 5:48 pm
amother [ Natural ] wrote:
Most people do not pasken like that OP. Using natural plants in orig form is just less sellable than drugs produced from ingredients in a lab. Energy is the entire field of physics & its subsets. Not witchcraft. There is no magic potions. And just because idol worshipping people use something does not make it a form of worship.

Western medicine is emergency medicine (abrupt, fast, cut, paste, throw out extra parts, infuse with toxic chemicals). Preventitive health is traditional eastern medicine ( gentle, subtle, not very quick, corrective use of things in nature).

Most people only first try eastern traditional medicine after western medicine is a fail at helping with something.

Even though worldwide there is more Drs practicing traditional eastern than western medicine.

There really is a time and place for both.

But there are a few people who hold like you. Minority.


Natural products, or the original form, haven't been tested but they can be quite potent and require similar bloodwork, etc. Anyone taking something natural must be very careful. I don't know enough to comment on other modalities but most of those listed, e.g. homeopathy are clearly complementary, I.e. they can be done along with allopathic treatment, vs. some alternative types that can't be done together.
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amother




Babyblue
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 6:41 pm
amother [ Rose ] wrote:
No, but some do. Can't say the same for alternative health.
There have been people who have cured themselves of cancer using alternative medicine. Just one example https://www.amazon.com/Chris-B.....56114
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Thisisnotmyreal




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 7:04 pm
You don't want to know what modalities I use on occasion LOL . But during each session, I'm just singing to myself Ein od milvado. To me it's been a real lesson in how we cannot attribute an ounce of power to anything in this world.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 8:12 pm
[quote="amother [ Ivory ]"]On which basis do you say so? The book was reviewed by leading poskim in Eretz Yisrael, including Rav Mordechai Gross (author of Shiurei Shevet Halevi) and his beis din, who were appointed by Rav Elyashiv ztz”l to investigate the matter. His sefer was also reviewed by Rav Moshe Sternbuch, Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky, Rav Shmuel Fuerst, and several others.

The way a talmid chocham reads it is different than the way a layperson reads it. The book is made cleverly so it can be Read two ways. The masses are reading it wrong and it is intentionally ambivalent so when refuted the author can fall back upon the way most people are not reading it Sad
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 8:16 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
amother OP wrote:

Quote:
[Just discovered that homeopathy is influenced by alchemy (ie concocting potions) ...it is not natural remedies but so intensely diluted formulas that have been effected by practitioners ...anyone have more info on this?

OP, do you actually know what homeopathy is? By the fact that you wrote what you did, I dont actually think so. There are no potions involved. A lot of natural products though.

Quote:
Also energy healing and many other alternative new age methods of healing are associated with kishuf/witchcraft...especially when there is no physical touch involved.

Witch craft? Really? Ive seen this done before by extremely religious people. There is no witch craft involved. Yes, there is no physical touch, but witch craft? Where are you getting this information from? It is totally off.

Quote:
The talmid chocham I spoke to quoted Rav Dovid Feinstein and also the Steipler. Also if you ever read that book by Rabbi Rephoel Szmerla called alternative medicine in halacha..it is intentionally misleading and a false defense for energy healing... wherever there is room for profit-making there is potential for bias!

Just like you think this book is intentionally misleading people, so too, whomever you asked about all of these things can also have an ulterior motive for giving you such not correct information.
Quote:

Also if you are doing yoga...a lot of the forms are based on avoda Zara and unless u r an expert on avoda Zara it's better to just stay away and use other forms of exercise for relaxation and stretching. Ask your Rav if it's ok.... And if hes not familiar find a Rav who is for this issue. (don't think most rabbonim practice yoga hehe)

again, it really depends how you use it. If you are not using yoga as a form of religion, it is literally just a wonderful way to stretch and move your body. And I know many nice religious men and women who practice yoga. Nothing wrong, at all.

Quote:
I also thought accupuncture was just touching pressure points but in reality it is based on taoism which is avodah Zara.

It is not based on taoism but was created by taoists. Its like saying something was created by jews, not the thing is jewish.


1. Your use of personal attacks is amusing but useless.
2. You buy into a false bias of following the herd. Just do your research with YOUR Rav. All the best.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 8:19 pm
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
Op we are all made up of energy. Everything has energy. You’re saying energy is forbidden and you don’t realize how ignorant you sound. Hashem created the world like this. Of course we can use it for good.
Literally anything can be used for either good or bad.
Btw my uncle died from chemo. The treatment left him like a zombie and he eventually died from it. Not the cancer but the chemo. But all hail traditional medicine according to you.
Don’t hate on people who want other methods to heal. It has worked for me and other people I know who use them.


Yes so true and I agree with you but the problem is seeing the energy as synonymous with Hashem (that's limiting) and as controllable by humans. Hashem is above and beyond. Many religions worship energy. Hashem is not energy. He is the Source of it.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 8:20 pm
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
Op speak for yourself.
When you paint everything as assur, you lose credibility. I have found very positive outcomes from doing a few of those items you listed.
So don’t do it if you think it’s forbidden.
The rest of us can use these methods and become much better off. Absolute nonsense when everything is categorized as assur. You won’t convince those like me who greatly benefit from these.


Just because it works doesn't mean it's permitted.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 8:37 pm
"[quote="amother [ Natural ]"]Most people do not pasken like that OP. Using natural plants in orig form is just less sellable than drugs produced from ingredients in a lab.
It is too microdiluted for it to have any possible molecular effect. Energy is the entire field of physics & its subsets. Not witchcraft. There is no magic potions. "
Taoism is tapping into energy and it worships energy and is avoda Zara. Calling it physics is misleading. There are sources in the gemara that people who practice witchcraft can pass on their power to others. Also you know it's witcraft if the effect is not lasting. For example a child born from witchcraft cannot live longer than 7 yrs. Witchcraft still exists. It just newage exciting parve labels to cover up the taboo.

"And just because idol worshipping people use something does not make it a form of worship."
This can sometimes be true and sometimes false. If they uttered incantation over something is becomes assur. If they didn't maybe muttar. For instance there is an essential oil company called ***** essentials I think that is actually assur Bec they do proclaim some chant over it. Need to research the name again. It wasn't living essentials.


"Western medicine is emergency medicine (abrupt, fast, cut, paste, throw out extra parts, infuse with toxic chemicals). Preventitive health is traditional eastern medicine ( gentle, subtle, not very quick, corrective use of things in nature).
Most people only first try eastern traditional medicine after western medicine is a fail at helping with something.
Even though worldwide there is more Drs practicing traditional eastern than western medicine.
There really is a time and place for both."
I agree with you and I avoid antibiotics and all quick remedies and prefer natural herbs too but a lot out there is ways for ppl to just take your money and that alone creates a bias for wanting to permit it.
I just care what Hashem permits. Segulos are permissible. Energy healing might not be. Pls inform yourself by speaking with your rov.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 8:38 pm
Wherever there is room for profit there is bias. I also don't trust doctors. Love you all lol
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Thisisnotmyreal




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 10:04 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Yes so true and I agree with you but the problem is seeing the energy as synonymous with Hashem (that's limiting) and as controllable by humans. Hashem is above and beyond. Many religions worship energy. Hashem is not energy. He is the Source of it.


Mmmm careful there, ever heard the song Hashem is here? Saying Hashem is only energy is limiting, but nothing aside from Hashem exists, so what else could (insert something in this world here, in this case energy) possibly be?? Hashem echad doesn't just mean the source of something (that's limiting).
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amother




Saddlebrown
 

Post Mon, Jan 25 2021, 11:24 pm
I personally spoke to Reb Kaminetzky about a few different alternative modalities including some mentioned here, and she said as long as you're not using it for avoda zara everything is ok, doesn't matter the origin, Hashem put it in the world to benefit the Jewish people.
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Flower25




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Jan 26 2021, 1:16 am
amother [ Smokey ] wrote:
I’ve used many of these methods, and got a psak that I was allowed to. I am chassidish, for reference.

First of all, there is always room to be meikel for a refuah. If you ask a shaila about a specific case, I’d be surprised if they tell you it’s ossur.
Second of all, I don’t think it’s 100% clear that it’s Kishuf. Hashem put natural healing into the world... acupuncture for example, is bringing blood flow to different parts of your body, and not necessarily did the people who practice it use it dafka for Avoda zara.

Bottom line, ask a shaila on each specific case. These methods really helped me, more than traditional medicine, and I don’t think hashem wants a person to suffer

What did it help u for, if I may ask.. Can it help for anxiety and panic?
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oakandfig19




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Jan 26 2021, 1:24 am
It’s not so simple...people need to ask their own Rav. That being said I’ve never heard of issues with acupuncture, it’s not a religious practice. It was allowed in communist secular China under Mao...
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amother




Natural
 

Post Tue, Jan 26 2021, 12:51 pm
[quote="amother [ OP ]"]"
amother [ Natural ] wrote:
Most people do not pasken like that OP. Using natural plants in orig form is just less sellable than drugs produced from ingredients in a lab.
It is too microdiluted for it to have any possible molecular effect. Energy is the entire field of physics & its subsets. Not witchcraft. There is no magic potions. "
Taoism is tapping into energy and it worships energy and is avoda Zara. Calling it physics is misleading. There are sources in the gemara that people who practice witchcraft can pass on their power to others. Also you know it's witcraft if the effect is not lasting. For example a child born from witchcraft cannot live longer than 7 yrs. Witchcraft still exists. It just newage exciting parve labels to cover up the taboo.

"And just because idol worshipping people use something does not make it a form of worship."
This can sometimes be true and sometimes false. If they uttered incantation over something is becomes assur. If they didn't maybe muttar. For instance there is an essential oil company called living essentials I think that is actually assur Bec they do proclaim some chant over it.


"Western medicine is emergency medicine (abrupt, fast, cut, paste, throw out extra parts, infuse with toxic chemicals). Preventitive health is traditional eastern medicine ( gentle, subtle, not very quick, corrective use of things in nature).
Most people only first try eastern traditional medicine after western medicine is a fail at helping with something.
Even though worldwide there is more Drs practicing traditional eastern than western medicine.
There really is a time and place for both."
I agree with you and I avoid antibiotics and all quick remedies and prefer natural herbs too but a lot out there is ways for ppl to just take your money and that alone creates a bias for wanting to permit it.
I just care what Hashem permits. Segulos are permissible. Energy healing might not be. Pls inform yourself by speaking with your rov.


First question, everything else they worship is still not assur to us. Ie: trees, rocks, elephants, sheep etc

I will look into living essentials but most commercially available stuff is just commercial goods.

I feel segulos are idolatry and a perversion of our religion, especially those for get rich quick and christian sources, won't example to not derail thread. I feel segulos have taken on a life of their own based in hocus pocus, that remove the basics of our faith.

Energy healing in our times to me is no different than any other form of medicine based in blatant science.

I know there are fakes out there but that is like MDs who are bad at their proposed job too or doing it with forged licensces.
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amother




Lavender
 

Post Tue, Jan 26 2021, 1:15 pm
OP I’m in my third trimester and have been wondering about this. I see what’s happening in Israel, which is crazy. Since I’m in the US and 8 months pregnant I’m hoping I can push it off until after the baby is born...I would reconsider if things got worse here Gd forbid, though.
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Jan 26 2021, 7:27 pm
oakandfig19 wrote:
It’s not so simple...people need to ask their own Rav. That being said I’ve never heard of issues with acupuncture, it’s not a religious practice. It was allowed in communist secular China under Mao...

The Chinese don't know halacha or torah Wink
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amother




Firebrick
 

Post Tue, Jan 26 2021, 8:41 pm
Something else you haven't considered OP, you quote big gedolim and books they wrote, what if your gedolim aren't my gedolim?
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Feb 18 2021, 7:19 pm
The essential oils company that's assur is Young Living. They do something to the oil thats assur
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