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amother
Crimson
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 Sun, Feb 14 2021, 11:34 am
For me, “lowering my standards” brought me to a place of being able to stay frum-
For personal reasons-
Don’t try to analyze this because you don’t know my back story.
But remember that this might be true for others and so I don’t consider it “lowering of standards” at all
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yksraya
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Sun, Feb 14 2021, 11:41 am
I did not read all the comments so maybe this was already asked. Did he just leave his shtreimel home, or did he totally stopped wearing a shtreimel?
Occasionally not wearing it is normal in every shtreimel wearing community and I don't think it means lowering the standard.
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yksraya
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Sun, Feb 14 2021, 11:44 am
| amother [ Crimson ] wrote: | For me, “lowering my standards” brought me to a place of being able to stay frum-
For personal reasons-
Don’t try to analyze this because you don’t know my back story.
But remember that this might be true for others and so I don’t consider it “lowering of standards” at all |
Sometimes, what others call "lowering" is really "upping the connection" with hashem. No one can judge or assume anything in regard of ones ruchniyos. So many people look very frum externally, but don't really know why they do what they do and have very little connection to hashem.
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PinkFridge
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Sun, Feb 14 2021, 2:34 pm
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I wear denim but I do get the too casual for a princess thing.
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zaq
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Sun, Feb 14 2021, 2:58 pm
| PinkFridge wrote: | | I wear denim but I do get the too casual for a princess thing. |
Princesses are allowed their casual moments, too. Even the Queen of England bums around in old corduroys and an old babushka (It may be Hermes, but it's old) when she hacks around her Scotland estate on horseback.
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dancingqueen
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Sun, Feb 14 2021, 4:14 pm
| PinkFridge wrote: | | I wear denim but I do get the too casual for a princess thing. |
Princess Kate wears jeans.
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amother
Coffee
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Sun, Feb 14 2021, 4:29 pm
| dancingqueen wrote: | | Princess Kate wears jeans. |
Plenty of photos of Diana wearing jeans, too.
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amother
Turquoise
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Sun, Feb 14 2021, 4:43 pm
| amother [ Crimson ] wrote: | For me, “lowering my standards” brought me to a place of being able to stay frum-
For personal reasons-
Don’t try to analyze this because you don’t know my back story.
But remember that this might be true for others and so I don’t consider it “lowering of standards” at all |
I see it as CHANGING standards. Not lowering and not raising.
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amother
OP
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Sun, Feb 14 2021, 4:45 pm
| dancingqueen wrote: | | Princess Kate wears jeans. |
You mean Duchess Kate 
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amother
Amber
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Sun, Feb 14 2021, 8:57 pm
I don't believe that what I wear defines me and certainly not my connection to the KBH and to His commandments. Well, no, that's not 100% true--I don't wear tank tops and shorts, and I wouldn't even if I had figure for it. But a fabric? A style? Wearing denim doesn't have anything to do with my role as a Jewish woman. It has to do with my role as a frugal, practical and hardworking woman who has no domestic help and needs sturdy, easily washed and dirt-camouflaging clothes in which to do my work. If I saw a woman mopping floors--or for that matter, boating in a rowboat-- while dressed in a business suit, nylons and heels, far from respecting her "princesskeit" I'd deride her as a fool. I wear sneakers because I live and work in a congested city where I climb many stairs, walk great distances, sometimes run to catch a bus or train, and there's always the very real possibility of having to run from an attacker. Although pumps with heels can come in handy if you need to stomp on someone's instep, they don't do the trick when you're trying for a burst of speed, and they can easily cause you to turn an ankle.
If I'm a princess, I'm still a princess in denim, though I challenge you to show me many princesses who mop their own floors and haul their own luggage. I am no less a princess in denim than I am in an evening gown and pearls. If I need to wear a silk gown to prove I'm a princess, I'm no kind of princess at all.
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GLUE
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Sun, Feb 14 2021, 9:54 pm
| amother [ Gold ] wrote: | In some frum communities "denim" is not worn because that's what all non jews wear every day. It's too casual. Even if skirt is 100% tzniusdik.
(Did you ever see a yeshivish rebetzin wearing a denim skirt? ) |
My sister is a very yeshivish rebetzin and she were's a denim skirt, snood, jogging shoes, and slouch socks when she goes shopping.
To answer your Question yes I have.
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PinkFridge
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Sun, Feb 14 2021, 11:40 pm
| zaq wrote: | | Princesses are allowed their casual moments, too. Even the Queen of England bums around in old corduroys and an old babushka (It may be Hermes, but it's old) when she hacks around her Scotland estate on horseback. |
On the estate, on horseback. Not when in public.
Like I said, not my mesorah, but just saying.
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amother
Coffee
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Sun, Feb 14 2021, 11:56 pm
| PinkFridge wrote: | On the estate, on horseback. Not when in public.
Like I said, not my mesorah, but just saying. |
Sure, the queen. But she's an elderly lady who grew up with certain ideas of fashion. Both Diana and Kate were certainly photographed in public wearing jeans. Even in some of the most recent official family photos/holiday greetings released by KP.
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zaq
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Mon, Feb 15 2021, 2:30 pm
| PinkFridge wrote: | On the estate, on horseback. Not when in public.
Like I said, not my mesorah, but just saying. |
On the estate, at a photo shoot. Just saying.
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FranticFrummie
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Mon, Feb 15 2021, 2:36 pm
| amother [ Amber ] wrote: | I don't believe that what I wear defines me and certainly not my connection to the KBH and to His commandments. Well, no, that's not 100% true--I don't wear tank tops and shorts, and I wouldn't even if I had figure for it. But a fabric? A style? Wearing denim doesn't have anything to do with my role as a Jewish woman. It has to do with my role as a frugal, practical and hardworking woman who has no domestic help and needs sturdy, easily washed and dirt-camouflaging clothes in which to do my work. If I saw a woman mopping floors--or for that matter, boating in a rowboat-- while dressed in a business suit, nylons and heels, far from respecting her "princesskeit" I'd deride her as a fool. I wear sneakers because I live and work in a congested city where I climb many stairs, walk great distances, sometimes run to catch a bus or train, and there's always the very real possibility of having to run from an attacker. Although pumps with heels can come in handy if you need to stomp on someone's instep, they don't do the trick when you're trying for a burst of speed, and they can easily cause you to turn an ankle.
If I'm a princess, I'm still a princess in denim, though I challenge you to show me many princesses who mop their own floors and haul their own luggage. I am no less a princess in denim than I am in an evening gown and pearls. If I need to wear a silk gown to prove I'm a princess, I'm no kind of princess at all. |
YES!
All of this.
BTW, a denim skirt, silk blouse, and pearls is a very fashionable look. No need for heels, cute flats work perfectly.
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amother
OP
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Mon, Feb 15 2021, 3:07 pm
This whole denim business doesn't make any sense to me either.
A woman once told me that she bought denim dresses for her 5 girls. She then decided to have 'mesiras nefesh' and throw them in the bin.
Its definitely not an act of mesiras nefesh, it is 100% Baal tashchis...
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amother
Magenta
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Mon, Feb 15 2021, 3:16 pm
I don't get this whole princess/queen thing.
When I don't need to wash my toilets, cook my family's food, run carpool, or work a 9-5 job, then we will talk about dressing like a princess.
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SixOfWands
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Mon, Feb 15 2021, 3:28 pm
IMNSHO, people are conflating issues.
There's no halacha requiring a man to wear a streimel, or a white buttoned shirt. He'd be following halacha just as well wearing a kippa and a Yankees tee shirt. But doing so might be rejecting a community norm. Not "lowering norms," but stating "I no longer choose to physically identify with this group." Ie rejecting norms.
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amother
Brown
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Mon, Feb 15 2021, 3:33 pm
Denim is considered a trashy look in communities where only fine European clothing is worn.
I am sure you can all agree that the girls from Williamsburg have a different look than the girls from Flatbush. It's the fine nuances that make the overall difference.
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amother
Magenta
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Mon, Feb 15 2021, 3:36 pm
| amother [ Brown ] wrote: | Denim is considered a trashy look in communities where only fine European clothing is worn.
I am sure you can all agree that the girls from Williamsburg have a different look than the girls from Flatbush. It's the fine nuances that make the overall difference. |
Fine Europeans today wear denim too. It's an outdated outlook.
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