My daughter took covid vaccine in Seminary (Israel)

amother

Tue, Feb 23 2021, 7:31 pm

Thank you to the posters that helped me.

I feel much better now both understanding the pressure she was under not to miss out on all the fun, and knowing that she is a guinea pig among the whole Eretz Yisroel.

I do plan on sharing tools with her. Tomorrow. I think it's ok for her to sit with her decision for 2 days without me interfering.

Now my turn.
I have a married daughter with 2 grandchildren bh. I mentioned to her ONCE that there is a possible link between vaccine and fertility. That's it. I did not ask once if her husband got the vaccine but has heard that he hasn't. My daughter has no interest in the vaccine.
My granddaughter was hospitalized for ITP a few days after receiving the flu vaccine. I was in the rotation to sleep with her overnight in the hospital since my daughter was in her 9th month and not allowed. I did a google search and saw that in Eretz Yisroel after the third time a child got ITP it was discovered that the dates match up to immediately following the child's 3 flu shots. My daughter gives her other daughter the flu vaccine, and I didn't ask if she gives the daughter that had ITP the flu vaccine. I did tell her ONCE what I discovered.
My married daughter still talks to me.

amother

Emerald

Tue, Feb 23 2021, 7:53 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Your daughter is not a guinea pig. (but knowing this made you feel much better? weird).

Its not interfering. Its calling her to see how's she's doing - as moms do.

amother

Beige

Tue, Feb 23 2021, 7:55 pm

People who chose to spend a year overseas during a pandemic (and their parents, if they are minors) took a calculated risk. Nobody knew what was going to happen, or what might be mandated.

What if the government had told foreigners they must get vaccinated or they would be deported? It wasn't out of the realm of possibility, non citizens don't have the same privileges as citizens do, and they don't have the right to stay if the country decides to cancel their visas or whatever.

Some people decided they didn't want to risk the unknown, so they kept their kids home (didn't the sems give refunds for those who changed their mind over the summer?).

amother

Tue, Feb 23 2021, 8:59 pm

Quote:

Your daughter is not a guinea pig. (but knowing this made you feel much better? weird).

I knew she was a guinea pig before. It's comforting to understand how she became a guinea pig.

There was a comic, one mouse says to the other, did you get your vaccine yet, and the mouse responds, not yet, I'm waiting for the human trials.

amother

Natural

Tue, Feb 23 2021, 9:24 pm

Op I’m with you. My daughter is also in seminary in Israel and got the first vaccine. I signed the form from the sem hesitantly. My daughter wanted the vaccine so she won’t miss out on trips. Today she called me to do more research since she’s scared to take the second vaccine. She got scared that it may cause fertility issues. It’s so controversial and so much is unknown. I know that a few million people in Israel took it and Rabbonim did say to take it but we really don’t know what the real risks are.

amother

Emerald

Tue, Feb 23 2021, 9:51 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Quote:

Your daughter is not a guinea pig. (but knowing this made you feel much better? weird).

I knew she was a guinea pig before. It's comforting to understand how she became a guinea pig.

You are talking about your daughter here. She is a person who took a vaccine so that she could resume 'normal life'.

JoyInTheMorning

Wed, Feb 24 2021, 1:12 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Quote:

Wow, I feel awful for your daughter. Good for her that she has a mind to think for herself and doesn't live under your thumb like I'm sure you would love.

You should feel bad for my daughter. I feel bad for her too. She made a medical decision for non-medical reasons, chose to ignore the long term, and after the fact decided the long term picture might also matter. Learning hurts.

The decision to get the vaccine (Covid or most other vaccines) is for both medical and public health reasons. When you take the vaccine, you protect yourself from a disease that can have adverse consequences. That is the medical reason. When you take the vaccine, you also contribute to the herd immunity that reduces the spread of disease within the community. That is the public health reason. It is an especially important consideration for a rapidly mutating virus like Covid. The more the disease spreads, the more mutations are formed. Rapid vaccination of as many people as possibly is essential to minimize formation of mutations.

Governments as well as schools and other organizations have a vested interest in protecting the public health. Of course they pressure people to take vaccines, using both the carrot and the stick. They should do this more extensively -- and I hope they will do so in the future.

Your daughter made a wise decision. Kudos to her.

JoyInTheMorning

Wed, Feb 24 2021, 1:33 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Quote:

No, I feel bad for your daughter that she has a controlling and manipulative mother.

Thank you for helping me empathize with my daughter.

You should feel bad for her. I feel bad for her too. She was a victim of politics and big pharmacy, and she was used as a guinea pig. You are right, it wasn't her fault.

Advising someone not to take a vaccine, or to wait to take the vaccine, when the result is that she might come down with a disease that has serious adverse consequences, is also using her as a guinea pig. There are consequences for not taking the vaccine.

And yes, there are serious adverse consequences, including myocarditis and long-haul Covid, even if the death rate is very low for young people.

Mamushka

Wed, Feb 24 2021, 1:37 am

Right now we can say that the vaccine protects us from death. I take into account that there are things we don't know about the vaccine, but at the same time, there are things we don't know about the long term effects of having had covid.
From info from scientists I personally know, the vaccine does not effect fertility.
Covid does effect the sperm count.
May Hashem help us all make the right decisions.

JoyInTheMorning

Wed, Feb 24 2021, 1:46 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I have a married daughter with 2 grandchildren bh. I mentioned to her ONCE that there is a possible link between vaccine and fertility. That's it. I did not ask once if her husband got the vaccine but has heard that he hasn't. My daughter has no interest in the vaccine.
My granddaughter was hospitalized for ITP a few days after receiving the flu vaccine. I was in the rotation to sleep with her overnight in the hospital since my daughter was in her 9th month and not allowed. I did a google search and saw that in Eretz Yisroel after the third time a child got ITP it was discovered that the dates match up to immediately following the child's 3 flu shots. My daughter gives her other daughter the flu vaccine, and I didn't ask if she gives the daughter that had ITP the flu vaccine. I did tell her ONCE what I discovered.
My married daughter still talks to me.

There is a possible connection between ITP (immune thrombocytopenia) and the flu vaccine. There is a definite connection between many viral illnesses, including the flu, and immune thrombocytopenia.

Vaccines are not entirely risk free. But the risk of vaccines is lower than the risk of the disease that the vaccine protects you from. As Mamushka above wrote, we have clear evidence that Covid negatively affects fertility (sperm count) in some people. There is no evidence that the Covid vaccine affects fertility. The rational choice is to take the vaccine.

Chickensoupprof

Wed, Feb 24 2021, 1:51 am

Despite all the gedolim in eretz yisrael who said to vaccine (kanievsky, viznitzer rebbe, Belzer Ruv, Rosh yeshivah of ponovezh to name a few) you are relying on scare stories, and you don’t see your daughter as a independent adult woman more mentally incompetent to do the right thing: choose life which is what we need to do according to Torah

amother

Violet

Wed, Feb 24 2021, 2:29 am

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

I got the Pfizer and I want it for my under-16 kids. As I see it, my kids will be guinea pigs either way - either for the British mutation or for the vaccine.

Me, I'd rather them be guinea pigs for the vaccine. It seems the safer option of the two. Too many kids are in the ICU fighting for their lives and will have long-term effects from covid. Please sign my kids up to be guinea pigs for the vaccine. At the very least, it's pretty much certain that they won't end up dead or in the hospital, and you can't promise me that if they get covid.

amother

Violet

Wed, Feb 24 2021, 2:30 am

camp123 wrote:

Op do you have WiFi in your house?
Because I heard from a friend that WiFi causes fertility problems.
And WiFi hasn't been around long enough to know the long term effects.

Also smartphones that you walk around with on your person and work on wifi.