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My daughter took covid vaccine in Seminary (Israel)
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Elfrida




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 3:47 am
As someone who is giving these vaccines (including to yeshiva and seminary students), I've never asked for parental permission for anyone over eighteen. Sixteen and seventeen year olds have to bring a signed form. Eighteen year olds are medically autonomous. Whatever the seminary requires in terms of parental permission, if they turn up they get a vaccine, no questions asked.

Some Israeli eighteen year olds come with parents. A lot more come with siblings or friends. As do the Americans. At that age parents are not necessarily part of the picture.

From her point of view, her friends are now finally able to do everything that is part of a normal seminary year - so why does she gave to stay sitting in the dorm alone?
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s c




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 4:14 am
I completely understand and feel equally upset. My daughter was pressured by her sem to have it and was distraught. She didn't want to take it. She has already had covid and has resisted two outbreaks in her sem since). I am strongly against giving a young healthy girl a vaccine whose long term possible effects are unknown and she agrees. However the pressure on her was unbearable. When you're 19 and told that basically for the rest of the year you won't be able to have any freedoms or join any of the outings and activities unless you take it she felt she had no choice. The rabbonim and staff were all telling the girls to take it and even girls whose parents didn't give permission were told they didn't need to listen to their parents. I was appalled. My daughter was so upset. I left it upto her told her and I would support whatever she decided. She feels coerced both by the Israeli government and her sem.
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camp123




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 4:14 am
Studies have now proven that the viral load of vaccinated people is much lower and so their chance of spreading the vaccine is much less. A pregnant woman died last week. A young healthy man in my community also died, A young avraich recently dead. If you don't want your daughter's to vaccinate then they should leave Israel before they accidentally infect someone who may die.
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 4:18 am
s c wrote:
I completely understand and feel equally upset. My daughter was pressured by her sem to have it and was distraught. She didn't want to take it. She has already had covid and has resisted two outbreaks in her sem since). I am strongly against giving a young healthy girl a vaccine whose long term possible effects are unknown and she agrees. However the pressure on her was unbearable. When you're 19 and told that basically for the rest of the year you won't be able to have any freedoms or join any of the outings and activities unless you take it she felt she had no choice. The rabbonim and staff were all telling the girls to take it and even girls whose parents didn't give permission were told they didn't need to listen to their parents. I was appalled. My daughter was so upset. I left it upto her told her and I would support whatever she decided. She feels coerced both by the Israeli government and her sem.

I agree she should not be forced to vaccinate.

She should have been given the option to leave seminary and get a refund on her tuition, etc.
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Elfrida




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 4:19 am
s c wrote:
I completely understand and feel equally upset. My daughter was pressured by her sem to have it and was distraught. She didn't want to take it. She has already had covid and has resisted two outbreaks in her sem since).


If she already had Corona she should not have had the vaccine. The Israeli government has not authorized it yet for anyone who has had Corona. The first thing we ask when people come for the vaccine is whether they have had Corona. If the Rabbanim were encouraging her to have it, they were encouraging her to lie in answer to that question, and to break the law. I am shocked at their behaviour.

And please don't blame the government. In this case they are innocent of blame, having clearly stated that anyone who had had Corona should not be getting it.


Last edited by Elfrida on Tue, Feb 23 2021, 5:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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s c




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 4:38 am
Elfrida wrote:
If she already had Corona she should not have had the vaccine. The Israeli government has not authorized it yet for anyone who has had Corona. The first thing we ask when people come for the vaccine is whether they have had Corona. If the Rabbanim were encouraging her to have it, they were encouraging her to lie in answer to that question, and to break the law. I am shocked at their behaviour.


She had it nearly a year ago and doesn't have a positive test in Israel so fits the criteria to have it. Even girls who had it in Israel but
more than 90 days ago are now being told they should take one dose instead of two. To the imamother who said she should be offered to leave sem with a refund I don't know if that was intended sarcasm or not. My daughter would he heartbroken to leave sem because of this. She is having the most wonderful year in spite of covid. I would never do that to her. Its not a solution.
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Elfrida




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 4:52 am
s c wrote:
Even girls who had it in Israel but
more than 90 days ago are now being told they should take one dose instead of two.


It doesn't matter what the seminary is telling then to do, this has not been authorised by the Israeli government or Misrad HaBriut. The seminary needs to take more responsibility. It ends up with the students getting upset when we tell them they are not entitled to a vaccine.

In terms of daily activities, they have a ishur machlim which gives the the same rights as anyone who has had two vaccines.

Rabbanim should not be advising students to go against the law.
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amother




Crimson
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 5:16 am
s c wrote:
To the imamother who said she should be offered to leave sem with a refund I don't know if that was intended sarcasm or not. My daughter would he heartbroken to leave sem because of this. She is having the most wonderful year in spite of covid. I would never do that to her. Its not a solution.


It'll probably be a pre-requisite for coming to sem next year. Why not this year? Now its available they can say to have it now or don't come back after Pesach. Then each girl/parent can choose.
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 5:21 am
s c wrote:
To the imamother who said she should be offered to leave sem with a refund I don't know if that was intended sarcasm or not. My daughter would he heartbroken to leave sem because of this. She is having the most wonderful year in spite of covid. I would never do that to her. Its not a solution.

It was me -- I didn't post as amother and I was not being sarcastic.

Obviously, someone who is not vaccinated/carrying antibodies against an infectious disease cannot expect to participate to the same extent as others. I get that some people don't want to vaccinate, and they should not be monetarily penalized for it, so a refund seems like a fair option.
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Iymnok




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 7:44 am
Now one dose of the the vaccine is available for those who had the virus.
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amother




cornflower
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 7:59 am
OP, I’m not understanding the situation. Did school force it? Did she just decide on her own without discussing with you? Did you discuss it and have a disagreement and she did what she wanted because she didn’t technically need your consent?
Not understanding where the breakdown occurred. I would be so angry at my DDs if I was not included in the conversation and honestly, listened to, as the final decision would and should be mine, however, they would have a voice in the conversation and we would debate it and I would be open to hearing them. (I am vaccinated and very much wanting my girls vaccinated but can’t get them yet in the US-but that is not the point).

And to everyone else, no, a child in Seminary is not an adult, at least not in my circles.
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 8:01 am
amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

And to everyone else, no, a child in Seminary is not an adult, at least not in my circles.

Perhaps, but if she is 18+, she is legally an adult as far as the govt is concerned.
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amother




Fuchsia
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 8:13 am
amother [ cornflower ] wrote:
OP, I’m not understanding the situation. Did school force it? Did she just decide on her own without discussing with you? Did you discuss it and have a disagreement and she did what she wanted because she didn’t technically need your consent?
Not understanding where the breakdown occurred. I would be so angry at my DDs if I was not included in the conversation and honestly, listened to, as the final decision would and should be mine, however, they would have a voice in the conversation and we would debate it and I would be open to hearing them. (I am vaccinated and very much wanting my girls vaccinated but can’t get them yet in the US-but that is not the point).

And to everyone else, no, a child in Seminary is not an adult, at least not in my circles.


No. The final vote should and would be gers. She is an adult who is not even living at home.

But, obviously I would be upset if my daughter did something I didn't want her to do but I would also try to remember that adults often don't do what their parents want and its part of the growing experience.
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amother




Fuchsia
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 8:14 am
1
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amother




Purple
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 8:16 am
amother [ cornflower ] wrote:
OP, I’m not understanding the situation. Did school force it? Did she just decide on her own without discussing with you? Did you discuss it and have a disagreement and she did what she wanted because she didn’t technically need your consent?
Not understanding where the breakdown occurred. I would be so angry at my DDs if I was not included in the conversation and honestly, listened to, as the final decision would and should be mine, however, they would have a voice in the conversation and we would debate it and I would be open to hearing them. (I am vaccinated and very much wanting my girls vaccinated but can’t get them yet in the US-but that is not the point).

And to everyone else, no, a child in Seminary is not an adult, at least not in my circles.


It sounds like the school sent parents consent forms, and then didn't require them. Which sounds like a major miscommunication or misunderstanding on the school's part. If the parents were told that 18+ don't require consent, at least they would know where they stood, how and if to talk to their kids, ask them to research, etc. OP thought that by not signing, she was done.
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amother




Vermilion
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 8:24 am
amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

And to everyone else, no, a child in Seminary is not an adult, at least not in my circles.


But in Israel they are considered adults. She could have gone to any vaccination centre on her own and gotten the shot. The nurses at the vaccine centre don't care if the 18 year old in front of them is a seminary girl, an Arab, a Jew, a hippie drop-out or a university student.
18 is 18.

In other words, she might have done it on her own with no involvement of the seminary.
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Elfrida




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 8:39 am
amother [ cornflower ] wrote:


And to everyone else, no, a child in Seminary is not an adult, at least not in my circles.


And in other circles a seventeen year old might be married, and not understand while she still needs her parents to sign a permission form. (And yes, I've dealt with that as well.) 🙄

The law is made for the population as a whole, not any specific circles.
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Elfrida




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 8:52 am
Just as a side note, it looks like a much higher proportion of seminary students will be staying for Pesach than normal. If the girls have to worry about bidud they will effectively be stuck in the dorms right through Chol HaMoed, which won't be much fun for anyone. Even harder if the majority are vaccinated and one or two are left making a seder and staying in the dorm by themselves.

It will be much easier for the seminary to arrange sedarim and Chol HaMoed activities if the girls are vaccinated. No one really wants another Yom Tov like they had at Succot. Some seminaries even waited until after Succot to begin the year in order to avoid that situation.
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amother




cornflower
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 9:02 am
I am so frustrated with people here. I said HOW I WOULD FEEL based on my relationship with my daughter and the past history we share. I said in my circles. I don’t know if you are in a very different societal culture, if you are young and view yourself as not much older than her and independent and resent people thinking your age is not an adult, have/came from a dysfunctional family and have a poor relationship with your parents, or any of 12,000,000 different reasons.
Here what people are saying without forcing your own agenda.

I’m out, not because I am offended, but because why bother. Dialogue need people to actually hear what you say and not talk over you.

OP, I don’t know if my point were helpful or irrelevant to you. Best of luck.
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amother




Gray
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 9:09 am
I just got my first shot as a k-12 educator in America this past week.

I was surprised that some teachers who had covid three months ago took it, but that was recommended by their doctors.
When I filled out the questionnaire, they asked something like if I'd had covid in the past --- days (can't remember how many).
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